"Heavy Warship" upgrade not upgrading all 3 battleship due to civ tech tree is more confusing than 2nd page Dock

[Skadidesu]

@Akleoni

They did a trial with the ships in Chronicles and their test seem to have told them to include the Trirreme but not the Onager, they must have their reasons that they will not share and we can only speculate.

The Onager ship is badly implemented in Chronicles right now. Overall the balance is not that well there.

@Akleoni

Galley would always still be weak against Fire ships

Galleys used to counter Fireships for the longest time. Wouldn’t be hard to balance them that way again.

[smiki5five]

@Akleoni

Does It even fit in the villager build menu counting unique building?

That’s why I’m proposing Sea Towers buildable by Fishing Ships instead

[SMUM15236]

@smiki5five

Move some naval techs from University to Blacksmith and Castle

I understand Blacksmith. But Castle? What naval techs can be gone to Castle?

@smiki5five

Make land units and warships move slower in shallow waters

@smiki5five

Allow Fishing Ships to build Sea Towers

@smiki5five

• Allow Sea Towers to train monkships (“Corsair Ship”?) that throw hooks to convert but are very low HP so you need a lot of them to convert enemy vessels
• Allow Villagers to build Sea Walls and Sea Gates in shallow waters

No need to make this game further complicated.

[smiki5five]

@SMUM15236

But Castle? What naval techs can be gone to Castle?

Elite Cannon Galleon upgrade perhaps? Dunno, just spitting ideas.

@SMUM15236

No need to make this game further complicated.

Addition of water buildings would only be relevant on water and hybrid maps.

[bigbossbro08]

Just copy Chronicles water

[SMUM15236]

Exactly my feeling. Now we have given up game balance due to UI. There is zero balance reason for Romans getting Demo Ship or Vikings trading off demo for Fire Ship.

[Skadidesu]

It is so stupid that some game design is determined by UI limitations. The UI should always enable gameplay and not limit it.

AoE1/3/4/AoM all have one more column on the grid then AoE2. While some also move buttons like garrison or rally point outside of the grid. But I think they are afraid of changing it now because people are just too used to the current hotkeys that they would all rebel instead of just spending a week to get used to it.

[KHANATTILA]

@SMUM15236

Now we have given up game balance due to UI.

In my opinion, the new version is better than the previous one.

@SMUM15236

There is zero balance reason for Romans getting Demo Ship or Vikings trading off demo for Fire Ship.

However, this is a matter of fine-tuning. It is not a problem with the underlying system itself.

[Akleoni]

@Skadidesu

It is so stupid that some game design is determined by UI limitations. The UI should always enable gameplay and not limit it.

Yes, that’s also the reason why I’m still surprised they have finally dared to rework the dock at all, something that is way more “radical” than all the other “minor” things changed people complained a lot about previously (like military/TC not decaying food or auto-farm).

@Skadidesu

AoE1/3/4/AoM all have one more column on the grid then AoE2. While some also move buttons like garrison or rally point outside of the grid. But I think they are afraid of changing it now because people are just too used to the current hotkeys that they would all rebel instead of just spending a week to get used to it.

I would personally would not care about them removing the extra gather-point/garrison/etc buttons and change TC default key to allow for an extra column like in the other games, but right now it seems to be extremely unlikely. We’ll see if they surprise us in the future…

[DynasticPlanet5]

@Skadidesu

It is so stupid that some game design is determined by UI limitations. The UI should always enable gameplay and not limit it.

Creatives are forced to work within limitations all the time

[SMUM15236]

@KHANATTILA

In my opinion, the new version is better than the previous one.

Yes. In general current water balance is better.

@KHANATTILA

However, this is a matter of fine-tuning. It is not a problem with the underlying system itself.

I disagree here. All the 3 civs with Demo ship changed are badly balanced. Vikings is almost uncontested #1 water civ for tournaments now, Romans is always top 10 over all civ in both ranked and tournaments and now even better in water/hybrid maps, and Portuguese fell a lot in water/hybrid maps.

[benithisrael]

I was just trying to play current water and faced this issue. It is really annoying. Medium warship and heavy warship are very uninspiring as well.

1. Merge medium and heavy warship upgrades with castle and imperial age up. Reduce some stats like pierce armour upgrade and attack upgrades.
2. Clinker Construction and Carvel Hull should be moved to those UI spaces vacated by medium and heavy warship upgrades.
3. Careening and Dry Dock should give +2 pierce armour upgrade for all warships not fishing ships. Or keep it at +1 and don’t add +1 pierce attack for war galley and galleon.
4. Add Melee armour and pierce armour for Hulk/fire ships using a couple of new techs.