Koreans are a civ that is being pulled in too many directions and it hurts them overall.
Solid foot archers, siege, and navy coupled with tower bonuses that pigeon hole them into one of the worst eco bonuses you can have (faster stone mining) and a military bonus that is lacking. For example Byzantines save 25% on camels and trash. Berbers save 15/20% on all stable units.
Meanwhile Koreans save 15% wood. And yeah it applies to a wider range of units, but its literally the most common resource
It also does not apply to Siege, where a Wood Bonus would really help later in the game.
This is true, but the celts bonus starts right from the get go. Meanwhile koreans have to wait until the feudal age to see their bonus at all.
Do you think that Korean eco should be buffed? I mean, to become an average civ, not to become strong as celts.
Because if you look at their standard play with archers/pikes, I agree that the wood bonus is not super strong despite very versatile. Still a nice bonus imo.
However, Koreans have the best towers in the game. So, isnāt the tower bonus enough to compensate? Towers can be very dangerous also when attacking.
And how often do we see towers? Sure. If you pick Inca or Koreans people will see it coming a mile away but outside of that they arent all that common.
Iād say leave their eco alone but i could see increasing the wood bonus to 25%.
That may seem like a lot but it only applies to one resource
It does apply to war wagons and turtle ships, so buffing the wood discount like that will make them that much more stronger. The current wood bonuw did its job (making them an actual naval civ) so itās OK I guess.
Except the civ is still terribly weak and underutilized. It could be because they are being pulled in too many directions
Too many directions? They can go archers, halbs + SO, towers and mass war wagons. Thatās several options, but not to the point you canāt choose between them. I would never feel compelled to go cav archers, cav or champs with them for instance.
Exactly my point.
They are being pulled towards towers, archers, siege, and navy. Because of this and their lack luster eco bonus (mining stone? Srsly), it spreads them thin.
Iāve read that as Koreans you can use your faster stone mining to market abuse. I wouldnāt blame you for thinking itās 100% short term and gimmicky tho 11
Not only is it short term and gimmick but most maps have a very limited amount of stone, that runs out fast, and most stone isnāt even mined until castle age.
Yeah some gets mined for tower rushing but that strategy is gimmicky, prone to failure, and costs a lot.
Here is an idea for Koreans:
Make the Wood discount also apply to Siege, like the Portuguese Gold discount does.
Tbh I think that koreans are underrated and they do not need a buff just need to be played more so people can discover potential strategies. Koreans are one of my favourite civs especially in teamgames, since their faster stone mining allows to build castles much faster (Iām a defensive kind of player) and then you can start spamming the war wagons which are basicly just OP, but people donāt really notice. Their siege onagers are also one of the bests, you hardly ever can stop a korean snowball. After proper defending and castle age booming you can have the superior military and go full aggressive and shred your opponet with the korean snowball.
and if more play shows they are balanced, iāll accept that, but for now, my stance is they need love. iām not saying they need massive buffs at all.
honestly i would love to see EVERY CIV played like 200 times by the likes of viper, hera, MBL, Tatoh, Yo, Etc.
i am a defensive player as well, but their stone bonus feels shortsighted and incredibly niche because the majority of the time you arenāt taking stone until the castle age.
good luck being able to mass both, thatās an expensive army.
fixed that for you.
Until castle age you just go normal without any bonus you fo archers if you want easier transition to war wagons or go stable if you feel like your enemy will go with something that counters war wagons. Try to take good fights and it will be all good if you succeed. Doesnāt work all the time but of course you cannot have a 100% winrate with a civ and a strategy. Tbh I think this is the hard part.
Yeah I know, but if your defense and boom is successful, you have the benefit.
the hard part is how slow the civ is. outside of stone they have no eco bonus at all. outside of reduced wood cost on your military, which doesnāt compare to stuff like Indians, Persians, Vikings or Celts when it comes to boom power.
yeah its ironic that the turtle ship is their UU because the civ plays slow just like a turtle. slow and safe.
In a recent post of mine:
We are at a point now that many civs are not played enough by pro players who tunnel vision themselves to finding the slightly overpowered strat among a handful of civs. Also, often they do not seem to remember or know all the civ bonuses. This opens the window for new players to rise in the rankings by utilizing little unknown strats.
In a recent game of Hera vs Daut, Vikings vs Portuguese, even the caster, T90 was prejudiced against the Portuguese, but Daut showed that they are excellent on water maps by utilizing their gold discount, feitorias, and caravels.
Personally, I believe that after one or two patches, the balance changes need to stop and players need to start testing all the civs and find new strats.
I guess adjust wagon base cost accordingly and have seperate discount for ships
nah, if anything i agree more with others, give us more time before considering changes.
I will try to come back on the topic guysā¦ we are a bit outā¦
Let us seeā¦
Koreans have one of the most powerful late game a d an excellent defense, so my guess is that, even more than Portuguese and Italians, the buff should be small and not-affecting late game