Maybe in 1v1’s theyre ok. But bombard cannon having an upgrade is just terrible game design and was not thought out at all.
In booming/chokepoint maps (Arena/Michi/Black Forest) if one team has Houfnice the game is probably already 80% decided. It just sucks and is terrible for the game.
Other strong BBCs that can be as ###### ## ######## (depending on situation):
Ethiopians: Blast Radius
Turks: Range, HP
Portuguese: Cheaper + Arquebus
Burgundians: Extra Damage
Spanish: Fire Faster
If you look into this you see that Houfnice isn’t just dominating the other BBC. All of them have certain aspects that make them better in certain situations.
BBC on itself is almost OP. Houfnice might be overall the strongest generalist, but it’s not unbeatable.
Also as you know the bohemians player will aim for that houfnice halb combo you can use this knowledge to your advantage and use the weak spots of the buildup to this comp to damage them before they can get to it.
I mean we literally have Mongols for ages in the game that have one of the best if not the best early rushes and then also one of the best if not the best lategame. Nobody complains about that cause they lack in the midgame.
And Mongols counter Bohemians pretty hard so…
PS: What is this censor??? ####### ## ######### is an insult or what? I don’t get it, really. It’s just annoying, can please @moderators look into this, cause it makes stuff really awkward. Especially as you can’t even see when you try to correct what was it that is censored. Fortunately here I remember, it was “strong” and “as” and “houfnice”.
BTW If people want to insult or herass you they will always find ways to do so. It’s not the words that insult/herass people, it’s people that insult/herass people. This censoring nonsense achieves nothing. At least not in protecting people from herassment.
Condottieri clearly is the answer to Bohemians, if you are going to play only in the Imperial Age
Somehow nobody seems to have a problem if it’s Celts or Mongols deciding the game on Black Forest, even though both are better than Bohemians… 
If you know the enemy team has better lategame civs, you gotta attack them earlier. Black Forest isn’t just a booming map.
Stop judging balancing off of 1 map. Houfnice being OP on Black Forest is by design, if that makes you unhappy pick Arabia in your TG.
Ngl you sound like a salty pocket player who picks something like Teutons, wants to free boom and free win with Paladin flood which I call 1 button press strat, yet when the enemies also have something good, you get mad.
I bet you can, ironically, make a case for Teuton Paladins (and a number of other units like Mangudai, too) being “Terrible game design” and “not thought out at all” since in “booming/chokepoint maps” (Arena/Michi/BF) the only unit that can beat them is Battle Elephants.
Anyway if Bohemians are so OP with Houfnice the solution is very simple, pick them yourself and see how many you win. Or even better pick Turks with their 14 range BBC you should snipe the Houfnice. As for balancing in general, I don’t think a unit being (allegedly) OP in 1 map justifies nerfing it, especially given how Siege is otherwise niche in open, Arabia-like maps.
Also like @Nerathion says, if you think you got the weaker late-game civs, try an alternative strat (like a sneak). You see a player like MbL do this all the time when he plays BF. If you chose to boom, because you are a booming civ like Cumans or Teutons, then you take the good (Paladin) and the bad (opponents also boom unimpeded).
Ngl your post reeks of “let me win” mindset where you think you are the only one allowed to have nice things in your civ and you are unhappy when other civs are able to fight back at all or are occasionally stronger (luck of the draw).
Bohemians are already nerfed on closed maps.
And like 4-10 people play arena/closed maps, they don’t need more nerfs. XD
The Top Win Rates of Arena dravidians 75% really supprise me. I would like to ask may I have the link of the website?
Its not a free upgrade, nor its cheap or gets fastly done. In Arena, its more effective in 1v1. In TG Arena you have the possibility of doing several strategies in castle age to delay or prevent full upgrade houfnice+halb+pocket army play from opposition. Black forest also offers a lot of chop through or break-in possibilities from early castle age to early imp. Several civs have very strong units or combos for the late late game with trade in TG – Mongols, Celts, Ethiopians and Bohemians are one amongst them and if you just free boom for a long long time against civs with much better late game units, you obviously lose. The only map where I could see this being a problem without any possibility of counter-strategy is michi. Then again there are many units like Persian elephants, Ballistas, celt onagers being a huge problem on that map. That’s simply a non-competitive map and should never be in the ranked ladder voting pool and that’s just a map issue.
Exactly. Time and again people are so OK with super powerful legacy civs dominating the game on certain maps but rush out to the forums when a new unit or a new civ seems strong.
You made a great point about 1-strat players getting upset when they get countered by stronger military but please Teuton’s Paladin is a terrible example. It has plenty of counters on closed maps - Elite Mangudai, Leitis, Gurjara/Hindustani camels, even massed halbs+siege from civs like Bohemians or Celts which aren’t that uncommon on closed maps.
Can you point out the stats source? I’ve been waiting so long since Sept 1st week for the new stats site. Also something extremely fishy and suspicious about Dravidian 75% win rate in Arena. Dravidian, Bengali, Persians top-3?? I just feel like the code has a (1-x) bug somewhere.
Those stats are from the spectator dashboard, the games are from the top 250 if am not mistaken which greatly reduces the lack of experience or knowledge using civs.
Houfnice is already nerfed and it should be strong for the cost of 950F 750G and 140s research time.
Meanwhile, Turks have 14 range 100HP BBC which can outmicro Houfnice and cost only 450W 500G for Artillery (They also skipping Chemistry)
If we are talking about Closed map balance, Bohemians are not the strongest civ in those maps anymore. It make more sense to nerf Turks/Poles first.
Couldn’t agree more, and with their monastery techs costing food, heresy and faith make their best counter (monks) pretty useless. It’s especially frustrating that they can also spam trash monks to convert your monks or get a lucky shot and kill your monks instantly because of the sheer damage they do. 50 attack vs monks 45hp (WITH SANCTITY) good luck countering them with cavalry since they have super strong halbs. Throw in they fact they have a castle age tech to enhance there movement speed so if they start taking a bad fight they can run away easier. You have the perfect op unit for a p2w civ in the late game. Other bbc civs don’t even compare. Spanish, Turks, & Ethiopians are all fine but Houfnice are intentionally op.
Have you ever heard of cutting thru trees with onagers to minimize the effect of fighting against a choke point? That’s what I do, I just use onager to strategically cut around the choke point which forces the enemy to dedicate resources and military to deal with your new infiltration point. You just need to get the ‘Small Trees (Bamboo Only)’ mod for this and you’ll be able to cut away to your hearts content. The best part, is that by using the Shift + queuing commands function, you can cut a pathway without requiring your undivided attention. I call it OPACing for short (Onager Pathway Auto-Cutting). Neat eh!?
