How do china counter these 1000+hp mercenary horses?

Something like this:

My early attack was easily stopped by these monsters.
But If I chose to age up and let them mass up, I would probably be dead either.

1000hphorse.age3Yrec (7.9 MB)

Any suggestion is welcome.

So here is a list of things that went wrong even before the horse

  1. you lost control of your herding so your food collection was much slower then the opponent- leading to slower age up

  2. You didnt manage to build the 2nd village up in time for the northern refugee - so you are also down 1 vil

  3. Building a consulate but never researching anything - wasted 200 wood

  4. You then sent boxer rebellion while not under pressure, against a civ that cant pressure age 2- another wasted card

  5. You then also get all of ur irregulars into the fight - they dont have siege to actually pressure the base.

  6. Your summer place should be infront of your base, being in the back means that it takes longer for the units to get the front and it cant protect ur base. Summer palace army should also have been changed early on to old han

  7. you built 2 war academy when you are barely able to maintain production out of 1.

  8. Rally point wasnt set, not for the war academy and also you didnt set shipment points forward either, so your entire timing is off

  9. Marco was decent but still not efficient, if you want to rush, then dont bother with vils on coin, or even market techs. You ended up overgathering a lot of gold and ended up with that outlaw play in the end

You were already down 2 k score by the time you tried your first push.

Now on to the fights

You actually won the first fight and pushed them back

  1. You then stayed under TC fire trying to take it down - you are losing units while the opponent was able to rebuild their mass, and at best you are just idling vils which dutch doesnt care about

  2. You should have targetted either a) their production the saloon b) their houses for pop space c) the market since they can sell their coin for wood and d) the banks

  3. After losing that first push, you should have tried to age up, preferably with the skrim wonder and just start massing territorial army , getting brit consulate and sending intervention to remass. Don’t just keep on throwing units at them. Their army is hard to mass and cant raid, stay in ur own base.

  4. You got tunnel visionsed into their base and did not check the map, they got their vils out for hidden eco and you could have used your cav to distract their army away from your base


Wow that is some in depth analysis.

For an exmple of what a chinese rush can look like, see this game

Though against dutch an FF forward with siege is probably the better play

china_rush.age3Yrec (7.0 MB)

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This boy is good… Oh yes

First I want to thank you for actually watching the RP and giving a detailed analysis. I learned much. :pray:

I do play slowly and usually make many mistakes. (It is hard to change since I just can’t react fast enough.:disappointed_relieved:) But even my level is much lower than my oppenent, isn’t it somewhat ridiculous that even I put all my resources producing yellow banners and light cavalry mercenaries which ought to be hard counter against the heavy horses, but still can’t stop these 1000+ HP monsters, or at least force my oppenent to change the types of his units?

Frankly, I don’t think I could counter these 1000+ HP horses even if I stopped the attack, tried aging up ,and summon the Red coats and produce purple banners in that game.

That is not the only game my oppenents just spamming horses. To be honest I think China lack the real hard counter measures to againt these horses. :slightly_frowning_face: IMO it might be good to allow me produce Manchurian horse archers or something like that in the monastery.

You are one age down, your opponent massing age 3 units with upgrades while all your units are age 2 and have no upgrades and you are taking equal population fights. There is nothing strange about you losing those fights

If it was france and you were facing 16 age 3 hussars or 10 Cuirs with cav combat or otto with 10 spahi you will be equally dead, whether you are making “the counters” or not

and note that you did force them to change their untis, they stopped making the cav after you took the tc down. The thing that was shredding your army at the end was the barbary corsair and the black riders that was dealing most of the damage and also hard countering your army


400金一个 虽然生命值高 但是贵啊 一匹马和5个长刀差不多贵 用5个长刀跟一匹马打肯定还是长刀赢

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我在台灣巴哈論壇有人建議我可以出9滿州卡,然後最近突發奇想發現英國領事館的間諜好像也很不錯 (打傭兵一刀100血)?不知道實戰效果如何… :thinking:

撇除實力實在差太多那種肯定輸的局 (我反應真的很慢 :sob: ,那場第二個村莊沒蓋好就出難民真的很瞎 :joy:)

我目前的得到心得是遇到實力差不多的對手,看到酒館我就該提高警覺了吧 (趕快升級、轉英國領事館、趕快出紫旗這樣)… :thinking:


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实战用过 间谍真的不行, 还没碰到敌人就死了 对近战雇佣军还是可以 有射程的就不行

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酒馆也不一定要用英领 间谍也就只能出一次。法领俄领德都可以用

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I agree with the other poster also, generally speaking it is tough to beat an opponent one age ahead of you, especially when he has a far superior economy. He boomed in the form of banks and you rushed. Look at how much he paid for his units, one Sennar horseman costs 400 gold so 5 costs 2000 gold. Did you have 2000 gold resources worth of age 3 grade anti cav attacking his horsemen? No. You had only like 8-10 pikeman costing maybe 400 resources or less, I dont know how much a Chinese pikeman costs. If you had 2000 resources worth of age 3 anti-cav, you would have easily won. You shouldn’t have stayed in Age 2 for so long, versus age 3 merc units that is surely suicide no matter what the composition is. Just imagine if you had FFed instead and had a bunch of anti cav and mortars to quickly take down his banks?

Its too bad your opponent had to be a jerk at the end by saying gg ez. I don’t know why people feel the need to be such jerks, especially when they WIN, I can understand if you lose wanting to hurl insults, but when you win? I wish there was a way to just mute the chat so you can’t see anything anyone writes in chat, they already have silence taunts option.

you can try to use Keshik actually, take 10 Keshik and Beiyang Army

Load it up and in the scenario editor and test it. 2000 resources of china AGE 3 anti-cav versus 5 sennar horsemen. I can tell you right now that manchu will definitely counter them. Oh, and don’t forget if you are facing an all merc army you can make use anti-merc troops, which I think all civs have access to in some form.

chinese do not have any regular spy-like unit
told you try chinese yourself…

chinese can spend 300 tea for 4 spies lol.
and there’s no more

Beiyang Army and 10 Keshik is the best way to counter heavy cav

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Yes I recently found the Beiyang Army card is powerful and immediately put it in my deck too. :+1: