Traction Trebuchets are better than both Trebuchets and Bombard Cannon having features of both.
Lou Chuan is better than both Longboat and Cannon Galleons having features of both.
And yet somehow not many people complain about balance being broken.
I don’t understand how is this working out so well?
The main Chinese civ actually has an inferior technology of Trebuchets that require recruiting from Castle and Pack Unpack requirement compared to the Ancient Chinese Traction Trebuchets. They don’t even have Bombard Cannons. How did they undergo de-evolution in time? They should atleast get the Traction Trebuchets. It would make a lot of sense.
Traction Trebs replace Trebuchets, so you can’t produce siege from your castles (aside from Petards). Missing Trebs can often make you lose an early Imperial Age castle fight.
Traction Trebs are produced in the siege workshop instead, and they take ages to produce: 70 seconds compared to Trebs’ 50 seconds. They also deal only 56% as much damage to buildings compared to Trebs.
Units that serve multiple roles (e.g., siege vs. infantry like cannons or mounted Trebs, and siege vs. buildings) are different, and the Traction Treb tries to cover both roles but, being non-specialized, ends up worse at both. While Traction Trebs are mobile like cannons, they don’t deal area damage like cannons, which makes them not as good against units.
Similarly, just like Fire Archers are probably the weakest unit in the game at the moment, the Traction Treb feels awkward because it tries to serve multiple roles. Massing them is hard, and not being able to produce normal Trebs like any other civ hurts.
I must admit that I haven’t played them much outside of campaigns and haven’t watched pros perfecting their use, but from what I’ve heard, Traction Trebs need a buff. Maybe if they could also be produced at a Castle, it could help.
I think this video explains it in more detail showing how the different long-range siege units compare to one another:
Lou Chuans do indeed break the balance.
And they only cost 75 more gold, which is nothing considering you need to pay 500 more gold to get Elite Cannon Galleons. This ship is overpowered and massively outclasses Cannon Galleons.
Either this ship should be nerfed or Cannon Galleons (maybe except the Spanish-Portuguese ones) should be improved.
First, I would cancel the Siege Engineers affecting ships decision. Only Elite Cannon Galleons should have more than 12 range.
Lou Chans and cannon ships come into play at a poijt most dedicated water wars are already decided
Yes, it seems scary at first, but then you realise that if you attack them with your units, they do much less damage than expected. We have BBC in our heads, but they are not BBC.
Player can build many siege workshops without limitation of stone. He/She can mass produce it if they want.
Generic bombard cannons have just a small blast radius anyway.
Traction trebs are easier to mass produce if you can afford them. Issue is that traction trebs are an expensive unit (210 gold is 10 more gold than a normal trebuchet). They do cost 25 less wood than trebuchets, but wood generally isn’t scarce in imperial age (especially late imperial age), and 10 gold becomes more valuable than 25 wood. So traction trebs are practically a touch more expensive than trebuchets. They also deal far less damage than trebuchets and even less than BBCs against buildings. BBCs aren’t great against buildings: they’re usable and deal okay damage, but are specialized against other siege weapons. The end result is that you’re paying a tad more for a unit that is worse against buildings than BBCs.
Against other units (including siege units), the traction treb is still innacurate and lacks blast damage. The traction treb also fires slower and lacks the bonus damage that BBCs get (though the traction treb does have higher base damage). But the end result is that the traction treb is not as good against other siege weapons as BBCs are (though it is cheaper).
But it’s really easy to explain why traction trebs don’t break balance: it’s because they’re worse than both BBCs and trebuchets. If you want to take down buildings with the 3K civs, you’re probably better off using siege rams (if you have them). Or building a dock if there’s a nearby pond.
Lou Chuan is a trickier analysis: it’s more expensive, but it’s superb against buildings (more so than cannon galleons) while being okay against other ships. But as has already been stated, they come into play at a point after most water wars are already decided (though in my experience, my play style makes them more likely to come up, so siege ships aren’t that rare in my own experience). In the situations where they do come up, they are generally better than both cannon galleons and dromons. However, access to Lou chuans is not enough to make a civ a strong naval civ. They provide superior value after taking naval control, but are not cost effective when the goal is to take naval control (i.e. against other ships)
Basically, Lou chuans aren’t great for the naval fight, but once you do win the naval fight, Lou Chuans will punish your opponent quite effectively. Lou Chuans could handle a nerf, but I don’t think it’s a high priority.
Jurchens have the best Lou chuans, but outside of that, their navy is meh at best. Usable, but not great and certainly not the navy you want against actual naval civs.