How do you imagine Korea and Persia in AOE 3?

It is a shame that some people still believe that Korea was just a region of China, because they do not understand how the Chinese tributary system worked in practice: a network of alliances, trade and diplomatic relations that benefited both parties. The name “tributary” is a mistranslation because there is no equivalent to the original concept in English. Brief explanation: The Chinese state was very Sinocentric, so it saw other states as inferior, and this did not allow them to trade with other nations, so a trade system disguised as a tributary system was developed. But in reality Korea was an autonomous country that was an ally of the Chinese. In addition, the Chinese country was too big and complex, with its own internal problems, to be able to exercise real control over Korea.

This article sums it up very well:

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No,in fact, it was a hermit kingdom for 250 years (similar to the Tokugawa shogunate) where Korea had a lasting peace and a strong revival of its identity as a nation…

Korea dealt with a pair of Japanese invasions from 1592 to 1598 (Imjin War or the Seven Years’ War). Prior to the war, Korea sent two ambassadors to scout for signs of Japan’s intentions of invading Korea. However, they came back with two different reports, and while the politicians split into sides, few proactive measures were taken.

This conflict brought prominence to Admiral Yi Sun-sin as he contributed to eventually repelling the Japanese forces with the innovative use of his turtle ship, a massive, yet swift, ramming/cannon ship fitted with iron spikes.[209][210][211] The use of the hwacha was also highly effective in repelling the Japanese invaders from the land.

Subsequently, Korea was invaded in 1627 and again in 1636 by the Manchus, who went on to conquer China and establish the Qing dynasty, after which the Joseon dynasty recognized Qing suzerainty. Though Joseon respected its traditional subservient position to China, there was persistent loyalty for the perished Ming China and disdain for the Manchus, who were regarded as barbarians.

From the beginning of the seventeenth century, a tendency to pragmatic study began to gain ground among liberal officials and doctors as a way to build a modern state. These were concerned with agricultural and industrial development and land distribution. However, the government, made up of conservative aristocrats, did not accept his proposals.

At the end of the second half of the Joseon era, the government administration and the upper classes exercised an arbitrariness as violent as it was persistent. For this reason, King Yongjo (1724-1776), adopted a policy of impartiality to combat this problem and managed to strengthen the royal authority, ensuring political stability.

His successor, King Chongjo (1776-1800) maintained the same policy of impartiality, created a Royal Library to store royal writings and archives, and initiated various political and cultural reforms. This era witnessed the rise of shirak, or pragmatic schools among learned and liberal officials. Leading scholars wrote progressive texts recommending agricultural and industrial improvements, as well as drastic reforms in land distribution.Unfortunately, most of the suggestions were ignored.

In 1790, the king ordered master Lee Duk-moo to compile the Mooye Dobo Tongji (compilation of Korean martial arts techniques). Javelin (chang) techniques, the use of the sword (kum) and the stick (bong sool), and the hand and foot techniques (Kwon bub), were collected in four books.

Foreign pressure in 19th century

During the 19th century, Joseon tried to control foreign influence by closing its borders to all nations but China. In 1853 the USS South America, an American gunboat, visited Busan for 10 days and had amiable contact with local officials. Several Americans shipwrecked on Korea in 1855 and 1865 were also treated well and sent to China for repatriation. The Joseon court was aware of the foreign invasions and treaties involving Qing China, as well as the First and Second Opium Wars, and followed a cautious policy of slow exchange with the West.

In 1866, reacting to greater numbers of Korean converts to Catholicism despite several waves of persecutions, the Joseon court clamped down on them, massacring French Catholic missionaries and Korean converts alike. In response France invaded and occupied portions of Ganghwa Island. The Korean army lost heavily, but the French abandoned the island.

The General Sherman, an American-owned armed merchant marine sidewheel schooner, attempted to open Korea to trade in 1866. After an initial miscommunication, the ship sailed upriver and became stranded near Pyongyang. After being ordered to leave by the Korean officials, the American crewmen killed four Korean inhabitants, kidnapped a military officer and engaged in sporadic fighting that continued for four days. After two efforts to destroy the ship failed, she was finally set aflame by Korean fireships laden with explosives.

This incident is celebrated by the DPRK as a precursor to the later USS Pueblo incident. In response, the United States confronted Korea militarily in 1871, killing 243 Koreans in Ganghwa island before withdrawing. This incident is called the Shinmiyangyo in Korea. Five years later, the reclusive Korea signed a trade treaty with Japan, and in 1882 signed a treaty with the United States, ending centuries of isolationism.

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The Persians have to be since they were one of the gunpowder empires:

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In the 15th century, the native Safavids re-established a unified Iranian state and national identity[4] and converted the country to Shia Islam.[5][19] Under the reign of Nader Shah in the 18th century, Iran once again became a major world power,and reached its largest territorial extension since Sassanid times[20] though by the 19th century a series of conflicts with Russia led to significant territorial losses.

By the 1500s, Ismail I of Ardabil established the Safavid Empire,[124] with his capital at Tabriz.[115] Beginning with Azerbaijan, he subsequently extended his authority over all of the Iranian territories, and established an intermittent Iranian hegemony over the vast relative regions, reasserting the Iranian identity within large parts of Greater Iran.[125] Iran was predominantly Sunni,[126] but Ismail instigated a forced conversion to the Shia branch of Islam,[127] spreading throughout the Safavid territories in the Caucasus, Iran, Anatolia, and Mesopotamia. As a result, modern-day Iran is the only official Shia nation of the world, with it holding an absolute majority in Iran and the Republic of Azerbaijan, having there the first and the second highest number of Shia inhabitants by population percentage in the world.[128][129] Meanwhile, the centuries-long geopolitical and ideological rivalry between Safavid Iran and the neighboring Ottoman Empire led to numerous Ottoman–Iranian wars.[118]

A portrait of Abbas I, the powerful, pragmatic Safavid ruler who reinforced Iran’s military, political, and economic power

The Safavid era peaked in the reign of Abbas I (1587–1629),[118][130] surpassing their Turkish archrivals in strength, and making Iran a leading science and art hub in western Eurasia. The Safavid era saw the start of mass integration from Caucasian populations into new layers of the society of Iran, as well as mass resettlement of them within the heartlands of Iran, playing a pivotal role in the history of Iran for centuries onwards. Following a gradual decline in the late 1600s and the early 1700s, which was caused by internal conflicts, the continuous wars with the Ottomans, and the foreign interference (most notably the Russian interference), the Safavid rule was ended by the Pashtun rebels who besieged Isfahan and defeated Sultan Husayn in 1722.

Afsharids

Main article: Afsharid dynasty

In 1729, Nader Shah, a chieftain and military genius from Khorasan, successfully drove out and conquered the Pashtun invaders. He subsequently took back the annexed Caucasian territories which were divided among the Ottoman and Russian authorities by the ongoing chaos in Iran. During the reign of Nader Shah, Iran reached its greatest extent since the Sasanian Empire, reestablishing the Iranian hegemony all over the Caucasus, as well as other major parts of the west and central Asia, and briefly possessing what was arguably the most powerful empire at the time.[20]

Statue of Nader Shah, the powerful Afsharid ruler, at Naderi Museum

Nader Shah invaded India and sacked far off Delhi by the late 1730s. His territorial expansion, as well as his military successes, went into a decline following the final campaigns in the Northern Caucasus against then revolting Lezgins. The assassination of Nader Shah sparked a brief period of civil war and turmoil, after which Karim Khan of the Zand dynasty came to power in 1750, bringing a period of relative peace and prosperity.[118]

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Korea could put it if they wanted to face any of the invasions it had: Japanese (1592-1598), Manchu (1627-1637), and already in the nineteenth century, French (1866), Americans (1871)…all civs that are already in the game…

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And Persia does or does have to be, either facing the Ottomans at Baghdad (1624) or against the Mughals in the sack of Delhi (1739)…

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For all those interested in a Korean civilization please give this mod some feedback.

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Perhaps both could have European and/or African units and technologies through the consulate.

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I think they would be just European allies…Persia would have Spain, Great Britain, Portugal and France (I could add India) and Korea would have as allies China, France, Russia and Great Britain (I could add the United States)…

Not if in the period of AOE-3 the Persian empire had influence in Africa, but in older times I think it did.

The Indians, for example, had participation in Africa, so the Indians could have new options in the consulate or new cards related to African natives or mercenaries.

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The truth is that I am not sure of the Persian presence in Africa in the seventeenth century… yes from the Ottoman (for obvious reasons) and from India (for commercial reasons)…

To my understanding, Persia never ranked again among the top ten world powers after the Mongols razed the Abbasids and basically decimated the whole Persian speaking part of the empire.
The Saffavids were strong enough to hold their own against their powerful neighbors for some time, which is no small feat considering who those neighbors were, but they were never in a position to project power farther than their immediate vicinity.
I think they may be a good candidate if you want to expand the Asian Dynasties, but we should not overhype them.

If you count the late Timurids as a Persian Empire then they absolutely were a world power after the Mongols.

They were also constantly fighting with the Ottomans who were the preeminent world power for much of the time period.

Yes, but Persia was always a regional power…from the Achaemenids to the Qajar, Persia was at war with its 3 neighbors who are already in the game: Ottomans, Russians and Indians…

The Timurids were indeed strong enough to seriously scare their neighbors, however, as pointed out, it is somewhat debatable how Persian they really were. Nevertheless, when you compare Tamerlane’s military might to that of the Achaemenids, the Parthians, or the Sassanids, you realize the stark fact that Persia’s true glory days were already in the rearview mirror by the AoE3 period. They held their own, but they were no longer at the top of their game.

Of course,and with the Portuguese and the Mughals too…although the last timurids would in fact be the Mughals (you know Babur, great-great-grandson of Tamerlan by paternal line and descendant of Genghis Khan by maternal line)…

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Yes in fact in wikipedia itself it says:“in 1736 (period of aoe 3) Persia reached its maximum territorial extension since the Sasanids times”…

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Actually, I hope sometime down the line we will get to see the Mughals and the Maratha as separate Indian subcontinant civs in the game. However, there are quite a few factions to add before we reach that point (Persia being one of them).

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It could happen if they decide to put the Durrani or the Persians in a single dlc with the Marathas,and rename the Indians as Mughals…

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I was doing some research on Persia for this period a while ago in the same vein as Korea post.
Ideally I’d give them a new Age up system, but the wonders seem promising. Of course, unit roster roster shouldn’t be a problem. Persia had really ■■■■■■ artillery in this period, but that’s just something to account for designwise.

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Of course, yes that can be good …