Cavalry and Archer civs has been my mains lately, and I face Goths in 4 out of 10 games that I played.
Their notorious Gothic infantry spam has been a nightmare for me to counter, so is there a way to stop a Gothic flood?
Playing as an archer civ like Ethiopians/Chinese/Mayans? Huskarls overrun my army.
Cavalry like Franks/Lithuanians/Burgundians? Mass halbs!
Imperial double gold? My army is beaten into a bloody mess by the infantry mass.
Kill them earlier? Use champs if you have generic fully upgraded champs, as Goths don’t. Otherwise you will have issues lategame.
dont allow your opponent to get to late game infantry spam. goths are pretty weak until lategame
even then it’s possible to counter Goths with your own champions (or infantry UU) + handcannons/siege. be aware that goths can tech into HC themselves though.
They are better now, with the new hunting buff. Still not top tier for the early game or anything.
Typically you want to pressure then early or use good champions in late game against them. I personnaly think a mass of heavy scorpions (at least 10) should work well, but I lack experience against Goths, and Goths have a decent early game with their recent buffs (longer hunt this patch, and instant loom one or 2 years ago).
For the specific civs you mentioned, I would propose for late game:
For all civs, I mentionned Halberdiers mainly as a meatshield, so the goth either waste huskarls or need to micro.
And do not hesitate to still go archers into crossbow with an archer civ, it is still good until the first huskarks arrive, and then you can add knights and use the xbows killing as many pikes as possible before the Huskarls kill them.
What the others have said, but to add, if they get to imperial and start spamming, you still shouldn’t lose. If you weren’t making a lot of progress towards killing them because they turtled up, you should expand greedily with villagers and camps, take as much forward and extra resources as you can. Once the gold runs out it’s just Halb spam, and you’ll take more efficient trades since they lack armor on their generic units.
So, either your push will be very meaningful and you’ll cripple them, or they’ll overcommit on defenses and you’ll have free reign to wall up and fortify large areas of the map and take a massive eco lead, which should ensure they bottom out on resources long before they can overwhelm your superior units.
Scorpions, mangonels, hand cannons. Some good meat shields in the front.
Or if your unique unit is good vs infantry (jaguars, cataphracts…) that’s the way to go.
Not anymore they’re not!!! I’m guessing you haven’t seen the latest update
True but only noob Goth players go with just Huskarls. If they’re half decent at the game and know you’re a meso civ, they’ll always mix in champions, which shred through eagles. So they have Huskarls to deal with plumes/arbs and champs to deal with eagles.
Against cav civs they’ll mix in halb with the Huskarls. And if you commit to full champs, Goths get hand cannons and Heavy Scorp too.
Yeah, true. Goths late game is not unidimentional, they have some options.
Just like I mentioned heavy scorpiond against the Goth (infantry) flood, but Goth goths still have bbc and 95hp hussars against that.
Champions are annoying vs eagles but it is not that awful if you have gold (5 hits vs 7 hits). And it should never be champions vs eagles + huskarls vs plumes, because both plumes and eagles are faster than huskarls and champions. Still Champions + Husarls are not really what you want to fight using Eagle + Plumes. You are probably better sending eagles for raiding and consider using Halberdiers or 2HS, which is not ideal but the matchup is rough anyways.
For me when you are up against Goths in late game, the main strategy is to force him out of the infantry flood, by making him train other units. Then you are fighting on more equal terms.
I think it’s important note to say “don’t try to counter goths” unless you are one of the remaining civs and have access to certain goth-counter units:
Aztecs: Jag
Byzantines: Cata
Burgundians: HC
Bulgarians: 2 HS with UT
Celts: Champion/WOad
Incas: Slinger
Franks: TA
Japanese: Samurai
Slavs Druzhina Champ
Teutons: TK
Gurjaras: Chakrams
Dravidians: Wootz Steel Urumi/Champm
Maybe I forgot one or two civs, but you should get the concept.
All other civs should try to dictate the game from the midgame and force the goths do get out of their comfort zone, which is just trying to boom and survive the weak midgame to get to the lategame flood.
Double Gold Comps can work, but you need also Siege and try to be always ahead in military, so the goth player can’t breath. Try to hurt the eco, cause Goths are terrible without eco behind to spam their infantry.
And against the standard Huskarl/Pike play in the midgame as many already pointed out the best choice is often just to add your own militia. So regardless of what you open with, your unit addition in the midgame is most of the time that unit + LS. If you plan already ahead for that you should be fine.
Another concept is trying to get goths from stone if you are an archer civ. The longer you can keep goths without their huskarls the longer your archers stay very dangerous to goths, as goths actually lack good tools against archers outside that unit.
You need to harrass his eco in feudal age. Play full feudal aggression, keep him off stone, or tower rush on his stone etc
scout raids
there’s 3 ways, up front, rush, and counterattack
Your opponents must be much more skillful than you if you die to Goth as Franks. There is something called axeman that will counter Goth easily.
You can also try Teuton or Viking, better eco, better infantry.
Archer civs are hard to fight against Goth. You must take enough advantage early till Goth can build a castle or it will be hard for you in late game. You should pick OP civs if you are not good at early game
Archer civ compositions to counter Goths:
Britons: Champions as meat shield + Longbows + Heavy Scorps behind
Chinese: Champions as meat shield + Chu Ko Nu + Heavy Scorps behind
Ethiopians: Halb / Shotel + Heavy scorp + Torsion engines Siege Onager* behind + BBC to take out barracks
Italians: Champions as meat shield + Hand Cannons + Hussar for raiding (+ Condottieri if Goth makes HC)
Japanese: Samurai / Champions + Hand Cannons + Onager or Arb behind
Mayans: Halb / Two Handed Swords as meat shield + Plumes + Heavy Scorps behind. Eagles for raiding.
Vietnamese: Tough matchup but Champions as meat shield + Rattans / Arbs + Onager behind. Elephants not worth it because they’re too slow and expensive and he can easily counter with halb + monk.
Vikings: Beserks/Champions + Heavy Scorps + Arbs behind
n.B. *Siege Onager needs good micro to avoid friendly fire, especially with the increased blast radius. Avoid if your micro sucks.
Get map control early because Goths are useless without stone for their first castle and also when gold runs out. Their economy is also vulnerable because they lack stone walls. Also you can stone wall the sides to stop raids and filter Goths down the middle where your meat shield + high DPS units + siege can get off their shots under your castles.
This is not very good advice at all.
Suggesting to turtle up while the enemy plays brain dead throwing their units at your towers is a bad idea! Shameful!
HC does not counter huskarl unless its Bohemians HC which can be massed in castle age and be able to hit and run.
Bulgarians 2HS is very similar to champion in infantry fight. , Goth champion is more cost effective.
Massed steppe lancers shred goths 11.
