The civ is currently unbalanced. In 1v1 supremacy the church FI into Warsaw revolt is very easy to do and it is basically the only thing that is actually viable to do with this civ at the moment. Every other build order I’ve seen or came up with just does not work as long as the enemy understands they need to pressure me before minute 7. Meanwhile in team supremacy cossacks revolt has such absurd economic output that you can sometimes compete with other civs in age 5, resultng in people speedrunning to that revolt. Finally in treaty the civ becomes unstoppable due to how absurd age 5 Polish eco is and how good their age 5 units are. All of those things combine into a civ that is a mess balance-wise, coupled with bugs that mess with the game balance as well and you have a recipie for a disaster. However, I think I have come up with a way to fix all of those issues while keeping the idendity of this civ the same and maybe introducing an alternative playstyle that will give Poland more diversity in terms of unit choices. The goal of the below changes is to nerf their absurd late game, while buffing their early game.
Things about Poland I would like to nerf as well as bugs I want fixed:
Uhlans from Pułaski’s legion should be normal consulate uhlans. Only when the player researches age 4 technology called “Bar Confederation” from the church card that they become konfederatka uhlans.
Konfederatka uhlas should have 1.3 ROF instead of 1.
10 giant grenadiers shipment from the church card should be 2000 wood, instead of 1500 wood.
Winged hussars bugs should be fixed (destorying trees in sampede mode as well as permanently disabling enemy mills/estates in stampede mode).
Piechur multi vs light infantry reduced to 1.3 (from 1.5) and they no longer get +1 range from the imperial upgrade
“Piechota wybraniecka” card in age 4 no longer increases piechur range and line of sight by 1 but increases all infantry train speed by 30% instead of 20%.
Farming folwark base food gather rate reduced to 0.6 (from 0.69).
“Kiełbasa” card now allows a folwark to only gather 2 pigs at a time (instead of 5).
“Kraków salt mines” card no longer enables villagers to trickle food while working on estates (it is a bug).
“Team lithuanian cavarly combat” nerfed to “team lithuanian cavarly attack” (only +15% attack for all light cav).
“Grand hetman” card no longer gives a hero dog and the healing rate is reduced to 4 HP/s in age 2, 5 HP/s in age 3 and 6 HP/s in age 4 instead of 10HP/s (this means that the healing aura will increase with each age up).
“Vlach banner” enables boyar training, but they do not require population, which is a bug, as they should require 2 pop each.
“Haidamaky uprising” card is capped at 20 units.
“Kosiński uprising” is capped at 20 units.
“Khmelnytsky uprising” is capped at 20 units.
Khutorian mill and folwark base gather rate is reduced from 0.8 to 0.7.
Revolution bonus of duchy of warsaw is only 1 heavy cannon instead of 2.
“Kościuszko uprising” card is capped at 20 units.
“November uprising” card is capped at 20 units and it cannot send more than 5 horse artillery.
“Second partition” card is limited to 15 units.
“Third parition” card cannot send more than 5 artillery (but mortars and culverin will be excluded from the random artillery pool).
Imperial upgrade for crossbows now no longer increases their range by 2.
Things I would like to buff about Poland:
“Grain export” card should fully commit to the whole folwarks making crates gimmick. The trade portion as well as the infinite part is removed and instead the card will now enable folwarks to create 100 coin crates for 120 food. Additionally, it enables folwarks to collect nearby crates and act as economic shipment point. However each crate they gather will only gather at 4 resources per second.
“Kusznicy”, “kosynierzy”, “pospolite ruszenie” and “piechota dymowa” cards no longer have a wood cost attached to them
“Towarzysze pancerni” and “towarzysze husarze” now cost 600 food instead of 600 wood.
All banner cards now become static (which means they will not scale with buildings): “Royal banner” will now ship 4 lipka tatar and 4 companions, “Władysław banner” will now ship 6 royal arquebusiers, “Saxon banner” will now ship 6 trabants, “Bathory banner” will now ship 5 shock riders, “Vlach banner” will now ship 5 boyars, “Scottish banner” will now ship 8 lowlanders.
Piechur now have 18 range in age 2 but only get 1 range with every upgrade except for age 5 upgrade (18 in age 2, 19 in age 3 and 20 in age 4).
“Rzeczpospolita” card now send 2 villagers per 3 buildings but it is capped out at 8 villagers.
“Steel bolts” card in age 3 should be added to poland as well, to allow an alternative bow/pike playstyle.
“Leičai” card now only ships 8 crossbows instead of 10 crossbows and 4 retainers but makes both crossbows and pikemen cost 60 food and 20 wood each.
I believe the above changes are what Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth needs to be in a better state balance-wise. Some changes I suggested to make the plainly OP or broken things balanced, while other changes are added to make useless cards not useless anymore, just niche, as well as making the crossbows and pikemen which have unique guard upgrades worth making at the later stages of the game.
Church Fi into Warsay revolt needs to be nerfed. Some chinese players are abusing this on the team ranked ladder, it’s disgusting. They even admit it’s broken, but they cinically say its World’s Edge’s fault, not theirs.
Cossacks revolt is pretty strong, but it keeps getting weaker as the game progresses, standard polish troops are stronger, and even with crazy food gathering they end up trading bad against cav archer/piechur/retainer combo
Cossack revolt units do not trade well vs piechur/cav archer because late game poland is insane. However if you compare their units to stuff like portuguese cassador/dragoon you will notice that cossacks units after age 4 upgrade have genuinely good stats and great value for their cost.
Amazing yours is the first that actually isn’t an over-reaction.
I’d add one more thing: Buffed the Winged Hussar Line of sight to 15 the same as most cavalry.
This is weird, because kielbasa increases the number of slots available for fattening at livestock folwark to 15. That way you only need two livestock folwarks to operate pig economy, but if u lower the gather to 2pigs at a time you will need assign pigs to 4 or more livestock folwark in order for it to operate efficiently. It’s weird and contradicts kielbasa’s 5slot increase feature.
This is just awful. Supress the crate stuff, nerf the trade to 75% if 80% is too much, idk, i haven’t seen a proper measure of it. But crates of wood and gold? You should have enough gold from the trade, why adding a second source? It’s weird. And you don’t need as much wood for late game poland, only in some specific situation to make some pike, but that’s it, it’s not like malta, that need infinite trade from food to wood because of their xbow/pike combo
Yes, but at the same time, it needs to happen. Treaty Poland abuses this card, basically becoming the only civ that can livestock boom and mill boom at the same time. Here is a rundown on the math so you understand what I am getting at.
1 folwark can gather from 5 pigs at a time at 4 food per second per pig, this results in 20 food per second if you eat 5 pigs at a time (which also requires 0 villager seconds). If you set you 3 folwarks on pig duty, you will be able get 60 food per second or 120 if you set up 6 livestock folwarks. With selective breeding and stockyards card it takes a pig with 100 food 3 minutes and 25s to fully fatten. This means that roughly every 3.5 minutes you are spending 3000 food to get 9000 food that automatically gathers 3.5 minutes later. In actual practical numbers, you are getting 6000 food boost every 3.5 minutes, which is equivalent to constant 28.5 food per second trickle. In supremacy this is indeed bad as it requires a set up and you have to actually get 3000 food first before things get going. However in treaty where you have all the time in the world, it can very quickly get out of hand, because on top of kiełbasa card your villagers can gather food from folwarks better than most civs can do so on mills. You are effectively adding 28.5 food per second to your food income which does not require any villager seconds.
In contrast, let’s look at Britan, which also does a livestock boom in treaty, they gather around 8 food per second per villager from cows thanks to fulling mill card, not to mention cows are cheaper than sheep or pigs, which allows britan to get much better value out of their livestock. You pay 1600 food to get 10000 food, not to mention thanks to british Team wool staple ports card, stockyards card and selective breeding tech, cows fatten from 55 food to 500 food in roughly 3.8 minutes, which results in 8400 food every 3.8 minutes or 36.8 food per second if we create effective food income. To compensate for this, british mills are middle of the road, not strong or weak, however Polish folwarks are one of the best if not THE best mill in the game, which results in Poland in treaty being plainly broken in terms of their eco.
Simply put, other livestock civs make sacrifices to get a lot of food, Poland does not, they simply add livestock boom to their mill boom without any downside in treaty.
Right now the card is an infinite food to 80% coin trade card that also unlocks the ability to create 100 food crates for 70 wood. Grain trade card as it is right now is useless anyway. My change aims to shift the trade portion with the same values into an ability to create coin crates for food. Reason I am doing this is because it is just plainly a worse version of incan “camayos” card which transforms all food into 100% coin, but with my change it becomes something more unique, your will still have the worst food to coin trade ratio out of card that offers this feature, however it will not be a one time thing like “fur trade” card or be an infinite trade card like “camayos”.
We found some similar issues, though it seems you found and included some Revolution and bug issues.
One thing in particular I like significantly better with mine is the rework of Winged Hussars. They feel too niche for a unit as distinctly Polish as a redcoat is distinctly British.
I think the changes are quite fair. In principle, I would increase the infantry train time from 30% to 35%. But overall, they are in line with Kingfisher’s suggestions, as mentioned.