How should Civilizations be designed by AoE4?

Just so I am sure I understand your understanding of the facts, are you suggesting that Age of Mythology and Age of Empires 3 were both commercial failures?

To me this is the worst of the series. The only good thing for that time was the new graphic except that AoE1-2-M were far better.

I do not deny it, I would be curious to know how much the various titles have sold.

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I do not prefer AoE3, either. But that does not mean I believe it does not contain lots of lessons and improvements that are important for AoE4 to use. Every video game is a bundle of features and ideas. Just because I overall prefer the bundles in other titles does not mean that I think we should completely ignore the other games and completely clone my favorite version.

All too often, this community seems to face some bizarre and unhelpful slippery slope arguments when someone suggests anything. Players for whose favorite Age game does not contain that feature fly off the handle and argue that any idea from any other game than theirs is valueless.

This is seen worst where players in favor of AoE2 prop up its sales numbers and playerbase as the authority that we should adopt every single feature in AoE2. It’s blind loyalty and not how good games are designed.

AoE2 obviously does lot of things right, but as a community, we should be intelligent enough to be able to hold that concept in our heads at the same time as the concept that other Age games may have done other things better.

One good example of this is how Ensemble replaced the reseedable Farms of AoE1 and AoE2 with infinite farms in AoM, AoE3, and AoEO. This feature was roundly lauded and now the new updated AoE1DE and AoE2DE include mechanics similar.

Another example are Walls. In AoE2, you had wooden palisade walls in Age 2 and then had to remake brand new stone walls all over again in Age 3. Again, Ensemble replaced this AoE2 feature in AoM, AoE3, and AoEO with Age 1 wooden walls that simply upgrade up to stone walls starting in Age 2. There are dozens more examples.

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What do you think is unique of AoE3 and that would be good?

It’s something I dislike but okey.

Does not make much sense but okey.

Sorry, I edited it above to cut you off. For starters, Farms and Walls. Also civ design.

Another one Siege engine crew, workhorses

The only good thing was the fact melee units could use torches to destroy buildings. But for example the gameplay was not the same as was in AoE1-2-M, the card system was a fail. Dunno I had a bad experience and I’m one of those who bought the collectors edition XD

Yeah that’s something related to graphic like the melee using torches.

Nobody here is asking for a card system like AoE3. Similarly, I dont see any AoM fans demanding AoE4 contain Myth Units or AoEO fans demanding AoE4 contain its graphics style or business model. There’s a lot more to the other Age games than these features.

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Well that was not bad and we get it. They said we have hero units for each faction with specific powers. That was just my opinion (over all) about my experience in the game - the gameplay is what counts :wink:

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Haha! I would like myth units, but I am not seriously asking for them.

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The eagle of the trailer is one of the powers of the Khan of Mongols - dunno how op those units will be. Anyway I have never said to not pick the graphic feature from AoE3 considering that was a good thing :slight_smile:

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For me,a 20 years AOE2 player,the card system is most interesting part in AOE3.It make PVP game extreme strategic, and give each civ hundreds of tactics.But the main city level design is a bad idea. It make PVP game unfair and ruin the talented card system.

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I personally liked the Equip cards of of Age Online because you sincerely could say that is “your” civilization and yours only

The most basic i hope more then the look of buildings and unique units we at least had units by “region/continent” i always though it is very stupid the Japanese having the Champion and the samurai(both are basically the same in the idea i know that they have different stats but on Japan it was either a peasant with a katana or Samurai…) in brief civilizations a lot less generic mainly the tech trees that on 2 all civilizations had like 5 tech different from each other at most so i hope that at least each civilization by continent/region west Europe, east Europe, Asia, Middle East, America to be completely different on troops and Techs

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Yes, the card system added more complexity and strategic possibilities into the game. Although I understand that someone who was already used in playing AoE, AoE2 and Myth for some years, those cards were a huge headache. It really made the gameplay more complex and required more study per civ to master it. That was however compensated by removing Stone as a resource and replacing it with Experience. But people do not adapt to new things easily. Most folks had already picked their god game when these things were introduced and its all a matter of preference in the end.
The home city levels were indeed a bad idea and the civ’s card decks often quite unbalanced. Maybe all those things combined were what made the card system so notorious.

Aoe3 introduced many new things and improvements. Another one that I particularly liked were the neutral native settlements. The players are able to ally them and use their armies and various bonuses that they offer against their enemies. It would be really interesting to see something similar featured in AoE4.

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Sure Mobile Base Mongolians and Eagle reveal map ability sounds new first for AoE, but that’s over 20 year old stuff from Starcraft Terrans. The big problem I see, AoE4 brings nothing new to the table. And it can’t, all possible combination have been already tried out and are years on the market, to a point where I have to ask are they necessary at all?

AoE4 doesn’t have to be creative or reinvent the Wheel. I would rather like to have a game again with lots of units and Nations. That would actually stand out, compared to other lame games we have today.

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I think many specific units should not be a problem as long regular units can not only beat them, but are the best counter.

We have in AoE2 this option “all tech available” , maybe it can be extended?

-common faction specific tech
-uncommon faction tech
-all nations tech
-tech from other nations

Hello, the looks of starcraft units are irrelevant…the game play aspects can be achieved:
Here are a few MAJOR gameplay differences i remember from starcraft and how it could be achieved in a historical game:
terran buildings flying --> obviously flying buildings are out of the question but a civ like mongols could move with tents on ox carts etc like the nomads they were.
terran medics --> obviously doctors, maybe they can only do it out/away from combat for balance purposes or whatever
zerg movement speed on creep --> various units of civs that were known for to specialize in certain terrain can get that, for example nomad light cavalry can have extra speed/line of sight on steppe/flatlands type of terrain… you can do that for other units on woods or lakes etc
“spellcasters” --> could have a few special units that can use an ability to throw a grenade for example (they had grenade from sulfur or something in medieval times) obviously for balance i consider it doing some damage but not killing a ton of units outright
stealth of various units, or burrow of roaches -->pretty much similar to the terrain point above, some units could specialize and be harder to detect from distance in certain areas, or could even toggle a crawling.
I only say these ideas as a proof of concept, i don’t necessarily believe they could/should be added in AoE IV. The buildings one i really like and to a certain extend some civ (or special unit) enjoying certain buffs/benefits on a specific terrain type, but the rest are just random ideas of how to achieve a unique design of civs in a historical game.

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I liked the city building aspect of AOE Online. I wouldn’t mind something like that where you can build your own little visual empires for each civilizations (or pick one).

AOE3 had it barebones in the sense you had a city you could level up.

I don’t know if they can incorporate that into the game (I doubt it) but I would like it. It would provide something permanent you can build and tweak while playing random map/supremacy/whatever they’re going to call it.

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