if the bar is set at “you can get a free Castle while opponent just does nothing”, then tons of civs are good vs Gurjaras.
Turks, Spanish Mongols, basically any civ with good UU goes.
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I think the gurjaras camels should be kinda good vs catas.
Yeah nevertheless byzantines with their insane discount on counter units and flexible tree should deal kinda well with gurjaras. Maybe not counter no1 but decent.
You cant open shravamshas in early castle age. You need to mass them to be effective and for that you need to boom first. I mean you can open xbow and then switch into riders but you need to play 1tc then. And although said siege pike isn’t the best approach vs the civ as a defensive options that’s fine.
You probably will struggle hard mid game but the opening in feudal should be pretty good and if you can survive to late game bulgarians is one of the best counters here as your high melee armor swordsmen don’t die to shakrams like other infantry. Gurjaras need to play hc here but that’s pretty akward on open maps.
Not really. Once you have the UT in they trade okay vs catas. Both units actually only do 7 dmg to each other so it’s a pretty boring fight. As catas are so expensive gold wise you might get camel and mass shakrams behind. If you can protect shakrams you should win the fight. And btw if you let them get full elephant archers they’ll completely eat catas.
Obviously yes I understand that…I watched a Hera vs Mbl game where Mbl as Franks did knights+xbows against Gurjaras from Hera, then eventually dropped castles took map and won with halbs and cavalier in imp.
Another game Nicov as Koreans vs some 2.3k+ player as Gurjaras. Nicov did monks, knights and crossbows against camels and Shrivamsha riders. But Nicov never attacked the Gurjara guy in castle age till he had stone for dropping castle. Then he did a forward castle drop and won the game.
Sorry for being unclear, but by castle drop I mean the blind castle drop without military 11 castle drop itself is always viable
(You will never understand how effective it is in 1000 elo)
Well I hope they would remove Xbow from their tech tree entirely
So no pikeman, no xbow, no blast furnace, no champion, on top of literally no any fully upgradable land unit.
Limit the garrison in the mill instead, if the problem is the eco bonus, their tech tree is already one of the most limited in the game.
Right now you can garrison 10 sheeps, make it 6.
Lets restrict this thread to avoid balance changes - would like to hear how to deal with the current Gurjaras first, as balance changes are highly debatable and subjective sometimes imo.
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We can break down the problem in 3 phases:
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early Feudal, they can do extremely fast/aggressive builds that allow them to be the aggressor. Being the aggressor in feudal is generally good as it can snowball into a few villager kills or idling opponent’s gold, thus delaying Crossbow numbers and upgrades.
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by early Castle, you are playing with +800f compared to a generic civ. This is enough for you to have more army, as typically in Castle age you rarely produce non-stop and production buildings are idle. In short, Gurjaras always have more numbers.
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if we do the net calculation of the food needed to have a smooth dark → feudal transition, we see that Gurjaras lose 800 from not slaughtering sheep, gain 350 under TC, and something like 150 ish from garrisoning by end of Dark age. So far we are at 500/800, push 2 deer and you have 800/800, in other words, you don’t even need to drop Farms to compensate garrisoning sheep. So they don’t really lose any wood in early Feudal because they have to farm sooner than the opponent.
When we consider all these 3 points together, it seems the solution vs an opponent playing with a handicap seems to just be a superior player. On even terms, you probably lose to Gurjaras. In any case, Feudal seems the best age to do damage to them. Here their army is fully generic and their eco bonus hasn’t kicked in yet fully.
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Agree
Disagree, depending on how much of the sheep they eat they are ahead 200-500 food.
The thing is more the timing cause they can “skip” 5+ farms at the same time, which is equivalent to 300+ wood.
This translates to about 1-1.5 minutes timing advantage effecitvely. This is the biggest benefit of that eco bonus, with the same builds they have a better timing than other civs. Interestingly this, against, favors archer => crossbow play with them a lot. But ofc also scouts => knights.
disagree. It’s really more about the timing. Ofc you can use the bonus just as a generic eco bonus, but then it’s more a 400 food bonus. But a lot of civs have comparable bonusses like franks, aztecs, chinese, mayans…
It’s not the amount of res, but the timing advantage. Other civs have better eco bonusses like chinese, but they can’t compete with the guraja timings.
The thing we didn’t consider and most likely also not the devs ist the fact that you can put 5 on berries which then can eat sheep 1 by 1 tot get up to castle. This is so unique and so insanely powerful at that stage of the game cause it allows their berry vills to maintain their production without adding any farms. After you clicket up to castle you can use them for anything.
Nah you make 250 food in 10 min with 8 sheep garrisoned. So by early castle you have 400-500 extra food but that’s only if you don’t eat the sheep before.
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Then drush, and depending on how It goes you’ll adapt