How to make middle type warship useful

This is pretty funny:
Competitive mp never favored water maps, as in every single AOE, because it’s too different a system.
But playing water maps against AI is not fun either because the AI is so bad on disconnected land.

…so there is just not enough reason to play “real” water maps.

BTW I never liked the idea of “dedicated fireships” in any game. I wonder that really existed. Asfaik most of the time fireships are improvised from older or damaged ships.
Maybe it should be some active ability (costing some resources) to set your light ships on fire and ram.

It’s far from impossible, but it would take an overhaul of water combat. If they introduced melee combat to the water they could create all kinds of variants of ships. There is already a charged ramming ability with the Galleass, but boarding could be a huge element that could differentiate ships. Bigger ships with castles could be better at resisting boarding, and smaller ships could be better at swarming in and capturing other ships. Faster ships with more firepower could be a functional counter by kiting to avoid boarding attempts. Naval stealth like what is in the historical battles could also be a feature that synergizes with this.

Water combat is just not very fun and usually not relevant to winning a game other than for booming. There are just so many issues with it. There’s no diversity in units, the combat is clunky, and water maps are generally bad (and can’t be handled by the AI).

  • Broadsides should just be automatic like Sloops are so it doesn’t need so much micro
  • Attacks in general should be more of a barrage, and not just one blast with a huge amount of overkill
  • There needs to be a target lock so ships don’t just dance around when something is slightly out of range (such as in a pursuit)
  • All civs need a passable roster of ships (Inca need more than one ship type!!)
  • Melee attacks and capturing ships by boarding could be the element that requires micro and evens the playing field for civs without massive warships
  • Other new mechanics like stealth, anchoring in place, or widely accessible fire ships could increase the diversity
  • Smaller boats being able to traverse shallow water would create a more dynamic interplay with the environment
  • An “Explorer” ship that respawns could make gathering water treasures more similar to land treasures, and therefore more relevant
  • Better maps could incentivize actually taking the water to get around chokepoints or other obstacles

Hybrid maps with a chokepoint or obstacle like I’ve suggested above could actually make water combat relevant for winning a game.

Civilization games have something like “melee ship/ranged ship” and capturing enemy ships. That might be relevant.

Give me a few more days, I’ve got it massing ships and building docks but I’m stuck trying to get it to change dock positions after it gets attacked.

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It would be a similar dynamic to that, but obviously also way different from a turn based game with units occupying a grid. The naval melee/ranged dynamic in civ is mainly just the same as land combat, and I believe capturing is only done with privateers so that stuff isn’t really naval specific in the civ games.

I think what would work best for this game would be to have nearly all ships capable of any type of attack, but have some more suited to different roles than others. For example, they could have roles like this:

Battleships and Frigates - Strong ranged attack and high resistance to capture by boarding, but bad at capturing/boarding other ships
Monitor - Vulnerable to boarding
Galleon - Resistant to capture, and moderately good at boarding
Caravel and War Canoe - Moderate strength in all roles
Privateers and other Merc Ships - Excellent chance of capturing ships
Canoes - Moderate ranged attack and good at boarding
Small Ships (Dinghy, Bull Boat, etc) - No ranged attack, but good at boarding

In civ games “melee ships” still fire their cannons but at a very close range. It might look awkward if the game is not grid-based.
But I’m thinking of something like maybe “carronade ship”. There is a “carronade frigate” unit in empire total war which are fast ships that deal massive damage at close range. Like I said I do not like the idea of “building” a fireship, but such a unit could somewhat function similarly to a fireship.

Or maybe implement different ammo types. Round shots that directly damage the ship, grape shots that “stun” the attack (reflecting anti-personnel function), chain shots that prevent the ship from moving (making it easier to capture).
Switching ammo types take some time so one needs to assign ships with different roles beforehand, much like deciding on land unit composition.

In civ the fighting is very abstracted so there are tons “melee” units with ranged weapons (musketmen, infantry, ships, etc). In AoE, you need to be much more clear and visually telegraph what a unit is doing. In melee combat, ships should be flinging grappling hooks and grenades at each other, not firing cannons. That way a player would be able to tell whether or not a ship is in melee or just firing at point blank range. And I don’t think ships should be automatically forced into melee combat like on land. It could be a decision between using cannons at point blank to dish out maximum damage or risking a melee attack to have the chance to capture the damaged ship.

Different ammo types could be a good idea. Lower damage attacks like chain shot that can stun ships would have lots of synergy with capturing and could even be used defensively to avoid capture. But maybe it would be best to keep it a charged attack so there isn’t the need for a huge amount of microing ammo types.

Yo propongo que se aumente el límite de unidades guarecidas al galeón de 50 a 95, así se usaría más

Some more shower thoughts

Allow galeons to receive shipments. If it is not close to shore, the shipment spawns inside it, including crates. If it is full, the shipment is refunded. Crates occupy one unit slot, regardless of size.

Privateers should return 5% of the target cost as resources for each cannon ball that hits.

Allow galeons to build falconets once an artillery foundry is built.

Allow galeons to build a one time military wagon for 100w.


But how would you actually gather the crates?

A simple way to buff them would be to increase the batch size trained to 10.

You eject the crates on shore.

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Well you could make the galleon only accept military shipments.

But What I would have liked from the start is that galleon doesn’t need to be a t the shoreline to train units, they turn up inside the galleon.

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True, but it fits the exploration fantasy better to also ship crates

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An idea I haven’t seen yet is to give galleons an aura that buffs nearby ships. You could break it down as:

  • Caravel: Fast and good damage for the cost, but fragile
  • Galleon: Slow and tanky, provide HP (or Atk or Range) bonus to nearby ships
  • Frigate: Good all around
  • Monitor: Long range, only effective vs land

This would make the galleon more of a flagship type unit.

On Aoe3De the sea is not skilled, on aoe2 it is aom the sea is skilled, it requires a lot of micro and attention from the player, on Aoe3 it is a question of who has the strongest ships and who has the most upgrades for ships, for example Japanese who will always rule the sea. You will tell me yes but also on Aoe3 it micro ships, yes true but it doesn’t seem to have the same weight as on aoe2 or aom

It was actually my idea. See above.

My apologies, I stand corrected!

Would you want unique galleons (fluyts etc) to have different bonuses?

A quick wiki search tells me that fluyts were designed to hold larger cargo. I have some ideas:

  1. Fluyts can hold 100 units instead of 50.
  2. Fluyts can garrison fishing boats and drop them elsewhere.


  1. Fluyts are floating banks. Counts towards bank limit.
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Atakabune: Can train fallen Daimyo. No other bonuses.

######## OP ship. Chinese Galleon and Frigate combined. No bonuses necessary.

Steamers for US and Mexico already have abilities so just the suggestions I made would be enough.

Once again, unique ships for India pls devs!

Forum is censoring Fooo chooooo ann.

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Galleons would never be used for fishing - the current setup is fine with Fishing Ships ‘whaling’ and ‘explorer’ ships like the Caravel being able to do it too.

Interestingly, tiny fishing ships did go whaling - sometimes even smaller than the boats depicted as fishing vessels in this game! Very small Whaleboats (rowboats essentially) would be launched from a mothership (a Whaler), hunt the whales then head back to process them on the main Whaler ships.

Suggestions for Galleons:

  • As their true role was as armed cargo carriers, apart from being very resistant tanks they should also act like ‘mini’ factories. You should be able to select their Cargo from Wood, Coin and Food much like a factory and they should generate that resource, albeit as a very light trickle. Destroying an enemy Galleon should give you a ‘bounty’ of which ever resource they were stowing (i.e. producing) at the time. It’s a really simple change and adds the choice of investing in lots of Galleons (for the abstracted trading trickle) but being careful not to let them go to waste with the enemy in fear of giving them lots of resource bounties. Fluyts share the same rate of ‘Trade’ as the standard Galleon

  • Race-built Galleons - a unique Galleon for the British and French - these are smaller, sleeker and faster Galleons. They lack the health of a Galleon (same as Fluyt) and lack the Trade trickle however are faster and gain Coin upon attacking enemy vessels/shoreside buildings to reflect the more corsairing use of English and French Galleons against the Spanish.

  • India gets Ghanjah Dhows as their Galleon alternative. Lower health (still has Trickle) but has a very early bombard in the form of Rockets in addition to normal cannon attack.

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