This has been an issue for me for a very very very long time! I waste countless villager idle time/ critical micro time attempting to PROPERLY place 12 farms perfectly in a square around my granary…
So I set in my mind today to figure out if there is ANY auto populating function similar to how you can do around a mill. AND I FIGURED IT OUT!
Before the steps lets create a visual. The number 1 is the NORTH corner farm.
1 _ 2_ 3__4
12@ ____ 5
11 ______ 6
10_ 9_ 8_ 7
Step 1. Place your granary where you will have space for 12 farms around it.
Step 2. Hold shift and hover with a farm CW from the NORTH farm corner (farm spot number 2 on my visual).
Step 3. Move your cursor INSIDE the granary to the DOOR of the left most hut (the @ symbol signifies the spot location)
Step 4. Click a billion farms as rapidly as you like!! It works every time!! IT WILL NOT MAKE MORE THAN 12!!
AND this actually works with all structures that are 4 tiles by 4 tiles; aka your TC, your villages, your KEEPs, etc.
NOTE: it’s impossible to mess this up IFF your cursor pointer is pointing to anywhere on the red door on the LEFT most HUT inside the granary. This means it’s DUMBY PROOF! (granaries still need a buff and/or cost reduction…but at least now they’re not a pain to populate).
for OPTIMAL buff you want 12 farms around EACH granary (for a total of 36 farms) and u want to stack the granaries like a pyramid block. So 2 on the “bottom” and one on top in the middle of the 2 bottom ones.
You’ll get about 6.5 farms inside the triple buff window, 11.5 in the double buff window and 18 in the single buff window for an average gather rate of 16.8% over the 36 farms. Note: it is IMPERATIVE that you research wheelbarrow when farming RICE farms; look up age of noob farm videos for details.
the 4 far corner farms on your diagram are more than 4-5 tiles away from the drop-off??? that means even with 1.29 tiles/s walk speed a round trip will take on average 6.97 seconds of JUST walking?
So let’s for simple math ignore the pause between 7.5 patch of rice and pretend you seamlessly gather 15 food per gathering animation.
(note: also let’s ignore how your 14 farm diagram would diminish from the ideal pyramid configuration)
You’d gather food @ a rate of 0.75*1.1(buff) for 15 food which takes 18.18 secs then take 3.48s walking to the drop off, doing a drop off animation (estimated at 0.4s) then comeback to the farm walking another 3.48s.
15 food per 25.55s
Scenario 2: You farm from the worst location for a farm on the traditional 12 farm granary which happens to be the corner farms; which is about 1 tile away from the actual drop-off circle. In this scenario we’re gonna account for the pause in gathering due to patches of rice only being 7.5 food. So you’ll gather food @ a rate of 0.75*1.1(buff) for 18.18s but also include the (estimated) 0.4s pause between patches; then add the 1 tile walk time to the drop-off of 0.77s then a drop-off animation of 0.4s and last a walk back to the farm for another 0.77s
Which gives you 15 food per 20.53s.
Comparing the two ratios the former isn’t just a lil less efficient than the latter IMO? 15/25.55 vs 15/20.53
the natural corner (again the worst farm around the granary) is more than 24% more efficient than your new corner farm? Not a good idea IMO.
I stand corrected it is NOT 5 tiles away it’s only 2.5 tiles away for the diagram you’re suggesting. Also you diagram has 16 “X” in it not 14? In my screenshots you’ll see a config similar to your diagram another that would actually be 14 and finally the 12 farm config corner. The 16 diagram like is 2.5 tiles away from the nearest corner of the farm towards the drop-off point. I have 2 villagers visibly stop-commanded; villager one was farming and villager number 2 was dropping food off.
The differences in gather ratios are
(18.18s gathering time + 0.4s animation pause between the 7.5 food patches + 0.4s animation drop-off + walk time)
15 food per 22.85s
15 food per 21.30s
15 food per 20.53s
There is an 11% difference between the standard corner and your suggested 16 configuration corner. However there is only a 3% difference between the standard corner and the adjust 14 configuration corner. While 3% I WILL AGREE is neglectable for ONE its not insignificant when you consider all the corners. ALSO consider how you’ll stack all 3 granaries now with the 2 adjusted configs???
This left corner is configured similar to your diagram
Ignore my earlier diagram. This is the correct one:
The obvious benefit is you can supervise more farms with 1 IO. Unsupervised, the 2 extra farms would still make up for the lost of gathering speed as total food output. When supervised, it’s more than make up for the loss. For multiple granaries layout, you can totally repeat that while stacking another setup next to the 5 farms edge. This also means more farms can be stacked inside the aura intersection.
You screenshot the WRONG image; The one you redraw over is the 16 config setup and the villagers are standing on the natural 12 config corner. If you meant to use the 14 config picture you can see there is clearly more than 0 tiles to walk???
The images are labeled in my original post.
Now on to the 3% loss PER corner. Are you gonna supervise all 3 granaries? Because whichever granary doesn’t get supervised takes a net loss with your configuration. Lastly the 3 granaries are further spread-out in order to accommodate your config which means less farms fit in the triple and double buff windows; need to do some math to see if even with supervision if its a loss or not.
IMO from just doing some cursory math you’re better off doing the standard 12 config then using mills to fit 6 more granaries inside the double buff windows. The stacking detriments of your config are:
the corners are less efficient than the 12 config corners
the granaries will have to be further apart if you’re insure there are 14 farms per granary therefore less farms in the triple and double buff windows
takes up EVEN more space
Further review found that if you supervise all 3 granaries in the 14 config of yours vs doing the standard 12 config with supervision on the and no supervision on the 6 farms in the double buff windows… you get about the same number of effective farms! So your config works just fine IFF you’re gonna supervise them all; otherwise its a noticeable loss.
Take notice to the in game income per minute; while both naturally fluctuate up and down each hovered around the same numbers. Only tech researched is wheelbarrow which IMO is mandatory for Chinese farming.
Granaries… don’t need a buff, I’m so sorry that I’ve come over to this camp;
Once you supervise the 2 configurations posted up above as you can see with JUST wheelbarrow researched you’re getting over 2124+ food/min; so if you count the 42 farmers + the 3 IO’s you have effectively 2124+ food/min per 45 villagers which nets 47.2 food per min per villager. All this available in feudal mind you. Keep in mind a standard Chinese farm with wheelbarrow only gathers 38.88 food per min. AND that rice farms are more efficient than wheat farms ESPECIALLY as buffs increase b/c rice farms regenerate faster thereby allowing you to stay on 1/3 of the farm closest to your drop-off points.
Now the HURDLES IS the excessive wood cost which means you’re UNLIKELY to get this established asap…which is a good thing you can’t given how strong it is… I will only concede that maybe it takes TOO long to get it established? So a small wood reduction? like from 250 wood per granary down to 200 wood per granary?
You don’t think the granary is strong enough?? look at this image of Imperial English, 48 villagers and wheelbarrow is the only thing researched.
Of course the food per min fluctuates but notice it’s in the same ball park as the feudal age granary setup?? NOTICE ALSO that this is 48 English villagers compared to effectively 45 Chinese workers (42 villagers + 3 IO’s). So again if we’re talking just RAW food producing power the granaries can hang with the king of farms?! If we’re talking food/cost then yes MAYBE granaries can be more efficient?? maybe??
Literally everyone else would understand the distance here is between the FARM to the DROP OFF. Let’s not get dragged into this worthless argument.
Ironically, your conclusion IS the exact reason why granary needs changes! No one says it is not strong (as it obviously should be, it’s a dynasty bonus!), what we are looking for is an ADJUSTMENT, that’s different to a BUFF.
Getting these set up down cost 750 wood for just the drop offs. Adding 3 IOs on top would be 750 + 450 = 1200 resources, that’s the same as castle age cost! Adding the farms and you have the unrealistic cost to get values out of this set up. Available in Feudal Age? You don’t even have the villager count to pull it off. Assume you get this set up in feudal, your opponents would be half way through Imperial already or would be ready to flush your base!
Your argument “it is available in feudal therefore it’s strong” is heavily flawed. Here’s why:
You don’t even have the villager count in feudal to pull this set up
Investment cost is unrealistic, 1200 resources without any farms is the same as castle age’s cost.
Requires 3 IOs, a 1 min TC time investment, while losing a big opportunity cost of using IO for supervising/tax collecting.
Due to space limitation, this set up is not possible in many situations.
Compare this to the English’s bonus:
Bonus is granted for free, no investment cost, no research required, and increases as each age
Set up cost is neglectable, farms are CHEAPER which offset the cost (very important)
Flexible set up, you can always pull off in any situation.
My guy you can’t even referenced the right picture…? Both the 14 adjusted configuration corners and the 16 configuration corners are NOT!!! adjacent to the drop-off??? Why it is you keeping stating that falsehood?
Secondly… I clearly indicated the potential issues with setting the granary up in feudal? the wood investment?? Why go on an endless monolog restating what I already stated AS IF I DIDN’T SAY IT?
I wonder why you didn’t quote this??? IMO… if you wanted to reiterate what I had said to add emphasis that would make sense. But your post APPEARS to be a rebuttal to mine?
Hi, this picture clearly shows the fact that the FARM in argument (the one villager 1 is standing on), is ADJACENT to the granary (0 tile distance between that farm and granary). It is so obvious that even a 3 years old can understand. Go ask 100 people, I’m sure all of them will tell you the same thing.
If you don’t understand this simple fact, there should be no need for further talks.
Clearly you are trying to bait and switch the argument… The very first freaking posted rebutting your 14 config had MY introduction of WALKING DISTANCE… then MY IMAGES outline the WALKING DISTANCES necessary… then you wanna come behind me and say “oh I meant the corner farm edge is 1 tile away from the drop off, that’s what I meant…”
NO!! The inefficiency comes from the villager WALKING further then necessary. There would have been zero point of putting the 2 villagers in the images I took UNLESS it was to demonstrate the DISTANCE the villagers have to walk from corner to drop- off??
Again there is a reason you clipped the first sentence and left the second sentence… clearly walking is what I was already talking about and my whole post is consistent but you want to parse my quotes to sound smart…but doing the opposite. How long would it take to WALK 4 to 5 tiles? Farms don’t walk? so clearly the reference is to the “thing” that walks…