this wouldn’t make sense because stirrups are attached to horse saddles
2 Likes
Better make Bagains to affect dismounted Konniks 
And Chinese have already cheaper techs
I’m in baby. It’s the last major change the civ needs IMO.
At least of all the changes I wished for here 6 months ago, that’s the last box yet to be checked.
Everything else (Bagains changed to +5, Stirrups affects cavalier and no paladin, slower fire rate for Konniks) has been crossed.
Also I feel like blacksmiths should work 80% faster, to mirror the Malian university bonus.
5 Likes
Why not make FU elite konnik beat FU Paladin? It has the most upgrades for a unit and if they lose Paladin then they should get a unit that can do an even better role albeit harder to produce as a trade off.
It’s a nerf if they lose Paladin but just make cavalier lose less now to Paladin and can’t beat them with the Konnik.
Bagains actually allows their TH swordsmen beat FU champions. You would think stirrups would do the same for the konnik.
Or let stirrups increase attack rate of cavaliers even more than it currently does as compensation for losing paladins? Would be a good buff, cavaliers are easier to produce than konniks after all.
Two-handed swordsman and champions correspond to cavaliers and paladins. So allowing stirruped cavaliers beat FU paladins would be closer match to effect of bagains.
But they already do. Yes paladins barely win 1v1, but that’s not representative of actual fights. If you try anything like 10v10 or more it’s a clear victory for Konniks, no question.
3 Likes
Bulgarians have Halberdier, to handle Paladin, and Stirrup affects the Hussar too, making them decent in large numbers against Paladin aswell.
Paladin may beat Konnik, but loses to Heavy Camel and 2 Halbs, while Konnik beats the Heavy Camel and the 2 Halbs.
It is asymetrically balanced.
EWE + Crossbows is quite deadly too in team games.
That’s why I said TG.
Also, they can be really good in TG when massed with crossbows
And Italians get cheaper dock techs
And Burmese get cheaper monk techs
Wouldnt be the wildest suggestion
1 Like
Fair enough, but of the three the cheaper siege techs is the best.
They have krepost (and cheaper TC) to cheaply protect eco, they have two UUs for the price of one and they have faster creating and cheaper (free upgrades) militia-line.
I would think those are very good eco bonuses.
1 Like
Paladins are just better than stirrups cavaliers. Bulgarians should get their Paladins back and stirrups shouldn’t affect the Knight-line
1 Like
That is exactly why they lost Paladin, because it was so good, all Bulgarians did was play like Franks and B-line for Paladins.
It is clear the devs wanted Bulgarians to be a Konnik + Bagains 2HS civ, so the Paladin had to go, as it is a stupidly over-efficient unit, that overshadows all other options.
It is the same reason why Camel (save for the Persians and Cumans, and the last is because they do not have Heavy Camels) and Battle Elephant civs do not have Paladins.
Because if they did, all they would train would be Paladins.
Same issue with the Steppe Lancers, Cumans had no Paladins, and Tatars had no Keshiks, you wouyld see a lot more ESLs from them.
I wouldn’t want to give them Paladin back but maybe 10 HP for elite Konnik would nice. They would be at the same level with Caras and Leitis. That does not means they win the fight but the same amount of HP 
They have 2 forms, so the lower HP is there to account for that.
Sure that’s true but my experience says in Imp Elite Konniks are not that strong if you like to compare this with other Civ elite Cav. Maybe sometimes better to go for Cavalier with their faster attack speed.
Konniks almost awlays get trained, Cataphracts do not, though.
This means Konniks are actually better.
Cataphracts are more expensive. Konniks are pretty strong in the castle age that why everybody playing. Elite Konniks in Imp are cool but not amazing.
i think removing Paladin weakened Bulgaria in the long run, but DOES give them a unique powerspike at late castle/early imperial age where their cavaliers are comparable (if not better) than Lithuanians and Malians. Maybe they are the best civs to force fights at this time period. However, it is very much hindered by lack of eco bonus. IF krepost can include the castle age UT, they could be pretty sick!