They all have HCA that are better then fully upgraded ones (or a unique unit in the case of the Cumans).
I would personally give the Persians an upgrade that makes them good in certain situations but not generally as good as a fully upgraded one.
Maybe by giving it anti Camel damage or something like that.
This is one of the reasons why many people want a China split. Current China is based on the Song dynasty.
AoE4 actually gives the French the Arbalester as a unique unit, which is quite different then AoE2. But I think that is not really something many people are concerned about.
It’s not just the fact that the Persians invented the Parthian tactics it’s also that they are well know for cavalry archer and that they were originally considered a cavalry archer civilisation by the original developers because they thought cavalry archers would be a lot stronger then they ended up being.
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Yes, so a trade off between better HCA and better other options.
If we agree on this and on the fact that buffing HCA should come together with nerf of other options, then I have no complain anymore.
I’d personally buff elephant units in general. People are so afraid of them becoming OP that instead they’re useless.
The keyword being “when”. Or “if”, I would say.
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Not sure if taking their Gunpowder options away is the right choice.
Better Cavalry Archers and Siege Elephants in return for loosing Hand Cannons and Bombard Cannons?
The balance problem with AoE2 is that all units cost 1 population. War Elephants as well as their counter the Spear Line.
That means the Spear Line needs crazy bonus damage against Elephants and also no real Elephant Civilisation has Heresy.
If units can cost less than one pop, then units can cost more than one pop
For me it is not the right choice. I personally play Persians because of BBC+Hussars+Halbs+Paladins+Xbows+any decent backline (HC/Arbas/Hscorps/HCA). And not playing Lituanians because they are “lame” for my standards.
But if people really want to give them top tier HCA, then I think something should leave. Great HCA along with all other Persian options is big for me, so I feel the civ should then lose something that makes me feel “ouch ! Is it really worth it ?”
For me tech trees should feel fair between civs and not just give everything to your favorite civs. If one civ has stricly everything you can hope for in military & economy, then the civ is poorly designed imo…
I personally don’t want to give them top tier ones, just good ones.
So a little worse then fully upgraded ones.
Something situational.
I have 2 ideas:
- Make their Cavalry Archers good against Cavalry and especially Camels (+2 vs Cavalry, +3 vs Camels) but take Halberdier away.
- Make their Cavalry Archers better against Infantry (+2-4 vs Infantry, and maybe reduced frame delay) but take Hand Cannons away.
That would make them useful in some situations but not power units themselves.
There is no anti Camel unit in the game yet, so that might be interesting.
The guy who keeps spamming about how Ottomans should be unbeatable by design should learn from you.
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I will give the Lithuanians treatment to their starting extra resource.
Start with +50 food, + 50 wood → Gets 50 food and 50 wood per TC.
And replace their Imperial Age UT with a new one called “Immortal” that regenerates your knight line 15HP/min. Elite War Elephant speed increased 0.6 → 0.75.
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I like that.
The War Elephant also needs a mahout 
.
3 Likes
I liked it
But sounds OP
It should be in Imp and expensive, but Persians already have a very good late game
I would try to make them interesting in mid game
Give Persians a new civ bonus, Knights recover 15hp per minute in castle age and 20hp in Imperial.
Buff Mahouts effect from 30% to 50%.
I fear the negative impact of making more farms only to take the advantage of the bonus will outweight the advantage.
Give Persians a new unique unit.
There are too many elephant civs and the war elephant is not unique anymore ever since Battle Elephant Line was introduced.
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Skill issue.
Sure, the Persian economy isnt easy to use, but this change would make the civ more competitve for top players and prob still good for mid elo with an slighty adjusted build order
And you can make the food and wod more bonus more like the Lith bonus if you want
I would change the Imp UT to “Indian Mercenaries” - You and your allies can train 10 free elite war elephants from castles. This would be more historically accurate while not giving a long-term advantage to Persians.
The civ is fine late game
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Just two things should be sufficient to balance it:
- 5% faster tc bonus in dark age added again
- Docks no longer work faster or they work faster but don’t have 2x hp, only the tc does.
I would absolutely not prefer a tech that’s borderline identical to Cuman Mercenaries, itself an already bad tech that’s far too situational, bad in 1v1 and very bad in team games if the allied civilizations can’t properly utilize Kipchaks. War Elephants may be a vastly different unit, but the tech is still a very short one-time use that doesn’t do enough to make Persians an interesting civ.
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I still vote for War Elephant as a unique upgrade for Battle Elephants. Units has been no longer as unique ever since Battle Elephant was introduced.