Persians seem to be getting the short end of the stick in the upcoming patch, only getting Gambesons (which they’ll never use). In the meantime, the Persians have been stuck with basically two civ bonuses ever since AoK, and they could definitely use more.
For this topic, let’s discuss some ideas to update the Persians.
Here are my thoughts:
Add the following civ bonus: Town Centers generate Food starting in Castle Age.
Increase War Elephant movement speed by 30% baseline.
New Mahouts effect: War Elephants deal significantly increased damage to buildings.
The first effect is yet another economy bonus, but it helps the Persians get just a bit more Food that they’ll need for their cavalry-heavy armies. It only starts up in Castle Age, though, to keep them from being obnoxious in Dark and Feudal.
The changes to the War Elephant make it more usable by increasing it’s movement speed baseline (since they’re otherwise unusable) and reinforces their niche as a building killer. Giving them resistance to conversions and spears would be too similar to the Bengalis, but making War Elephants more damaging to structures would make them a much bigger threat if they can actually get to them. While Persians do have Siege Rams, those are vulnerable to Villagers (especially since Sappers is going to give Villagers bonus damage against Rams), and only a suicidal Spanish player would fight Elite War Elephants with Villagers.
Hardly any civ is same anymore. Bonus and techs changed identity of many civs. Like Vikings lost their old AOC UT. Saracens became Archer + Camel + Siege from Camel + Cav Archer. Metas are getting more aggressive as the day goes by.
make either their Castle Age less generic or their Imp much stronger. They are meant to be this boom into something civ but that something very often is Paladin + Skirm comp which while good is not THAT insane (occasionally HC instead of Skirm). Also Paladin and full Stable was insane to have back in AoK, but these days people are better at transitions, better at seeing Paladin coming, the new civs also have more versatile tech trees and alternative ways to win the game than brute force the Paladin mass that Persians wanna go for, so they got a bit powercrept in this sense.
Having BBC is good I suppose but again without SE it makes them feel generic even on maps like Arena where they could potentially gain an advantage with their faster TCs.
Persians need something to be feared in the late game much like you would fear Berbers or Tatars. For example, dumb idea that came to me in 2 min, don’t focus on the numbers, but something like Hussar +4 melee armor. Bam suddenly Persians have a power spike instead of being this civ that feels flat throughout the game, and you
Honestly, that’s a good take on the Persians. They feel too generic once they reach Castle and Imperial, in that their units have no stat advantages or anything of the sort. Their only unique bit is trash Xbows.
Remove Parthian Tactics from their tech tree and replace it with something better as a civ bonus; like, Cav Archers have +0/+1 armor in Castle and +1/+2 in Imp and also +2 attack bonus vs Pikemen in Castle and +3 in Imp (just an idea)
Like they did for the Vikings and Koreans in the past they should make Mahouts part of the Elite Upgrade.
Then they can get a new Imperial UT to make their Cavalry Archers useful.
That wouldn’t make them much stronger but makes it cheaper and faster to fully upgrade their War Elephants.
Persia had 5% faster TCs in Dark Age directly after the release of the Definitive Edition and that instantly made them one of the best civilisations in the game.
I think their faster Working TCs is bonus enough for booming.
I think basically everyone says that the mahouts tech should just become baseline.
But I don’t even think it’s enough to make Eles more viable, especially in the midgame.
Eles suffer from the same issue as the militia line. They are slow and have no range. They don’t deal damage to the opponent eco unless you can spam them. Which is only possible in the very lategame.
Whilst I agree that Eles in general are kinda “misleading” as they theoretically have “bonus” vs Buildings. BUt effectively in the case of Battle eles they do actually less damage to buildings than Knights which aren’t the best building destroyers either.
But I don’t even think this is the main factor here.
I think Eles need an overhaul in general. And when the Eles are more useful, the Trashbows will become very important addition for the Persians aswell.
I personally would give them a new bonus to their CA instead.
One idea I posted already in a different thread was to give thir CA extra armor (mainly melee + a bit of pierce, potentially even for their various armor classes). This would make their HCA have less damage output than regular (miss bracer). But they would become a strong standalone unit, especially if you manage to get like 80 + of them in one ### #### there would be almost nothing that could stop them. Problem would only be to get to these high numbers.
With this Persians would become one of the most versatile lategame civs with various options. But they probably need to make a decision. Trash + HC? Pala + Skirm + HC? Ele + Trashbow? CA?
All viable, ### ### ###### ####################
It would be interesting to see how much armor you need to add to CA to “compensate” Bracer.
I would not update them. The Elephants are very unique but extremly strong when massed. So persians should not really be buffed. On the other hand nerfing the Elephants is not an option. Maybe the imperial age unique tech could be changed, because it is very expensive for 1v1, but if it is cheaper it would not change diplomacy type games much. Something lik 200 Elite War elephants is just very strong and can walk over every town, but this is not really made stronger if the upgrades are cheaper.
Persians are only very little below average in performance.
It’s mostly that some aspects of the civilisation don’t feel right for people.
Like the fact that Persians, the ones that gave the Parthian Tactics it’s name, don’t even have fully upgraded Cavalry Archers.
The other issue is generally that UTs that buff unique units are boring. Those things could be added to the Elite upgrade.
Giving Persians a Imperial Age UT that makes their Cavalry Archers about as strong as fully upgraded ones would not really make the civilisation noticeably stronger but would add flavour.
Other thing no one mentioned but I thought about.
Should he Persians get Siege Elephants?
It is slightly off topic as it diesnt concern mahouts, but I feel the castle age UT affecting UU are nice. Because this is what I want to use in arena like maps: for me in open maps it is often hard to afford a castle (except when you UU is OP), and when you can afford a castle in castke age, I often want to make UU. Then a UT gives me the choice between better military or better eco (adding aother TC)
I think it would make them noticeably stronger and complete in late game. Other good HCA/paladin civs like Magyars/Huns/Cumans(?) are missing BBC and HC options.
If people really want top tier persian HCA, can we remove them BBC/HC and give them to another civ ? Like give them too Huns ? And remove something from huns like Partian tactics and halberdiers ? Anyways currently Huns are Magyars with better early eco and worse milirary options…
Whenever people complain about military options, I always think “please have a look at Huns and Vikings”…
Who invented gunpowder again ? Where does the word “arbalest” comes from ? Because I dont think the corresponding civs got them…
At least Persians got parthian tactics…
I am not in favor of that out of a civ splitting.
Btw, would you just give them EA or replace HCA with EA ?