HRE: I am annoyed by its state. Esp. since it has been getting worse and worse

I am a bit worried that Beasty’s pro perspective on the HRE will keep them in their sorry state, since he is such an important figure in the scene. I had quite an exhausting engagement on Reddit (not with Beasty, but he says HRE is fine, when he clearly doesn’t care about them as a unique civ, but an economical powerhouse that is okay to be limited by its landmarks and terrible unit roster. And I reacted to that.).

So I wrote this:

To be found here: Reddit - Dive into anything

Now we’ll get Japanese and for some reason the Byzantines that didn’t even really reach the Renaissance and didn’t have the money for gunpowder and thus never had access to it. Greek fire was nice, but in age IV it should be laughable for it was also very limited in its usability. They were the defining cultural power up until ~1250 and then it went downhill heavily and steadily. But I bet my balls that both these civs will be so very freaking unique in every regard, eventually ridiculing the HRE even more than it’s already the case. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Byzantines even had a more potent lategame than the HRE, which would be the total meltdown for my brain and the instant uninstallation from my Steam library. But we’ll have to see. I am curious about the Byzantines, but I really wonder how they are supposed to have an age IV, when it can only be described as their utter downfall.

Where will that leave the HRE, the only civ I actually care about? It is not on par with the other civs gameplay, versatility and uniqueness wise. It can beat every civ, but only in the worst ways I can imagine. Yeah, I won by sacrificing twice as many units as the opponent thanks to Aachen eco and nothing else. Oh, and God forbid to ever go Meinwerk. In an equal match up you might not even reach age IV with that landmark.

I urge Relic to do something about the HRE. Please do not let it be only skins they receive. On the screenshot you cannot see anything new, only different skins. And that got me worried. I want to love AoE IV, but this HRE is a total mood killer for me. Come on, Relic. It’s already one of the worse performing civs right now, although all civs are rather close to each other. The gap between Rus and HRE, however, is enormous.

How can I make sure Relic really gets these views on the HRE, when so many people just outright pretend to be okay with its terrible sorry state as a unique civ. I am constantly downvoted on Reddit for stating and argueing how poorly designed the HRE actually is. And it starts to get to me. Again: I am not talking about the ability to win a match as HRE. I am talking about the uniqueness and various mechanics that this civ is lacking. Their focus on MAA and the Aachen eco is not a blessing, it is a freaking curse that limits this civs to be anything else.

Abbasid caliphate 750 - 1258
The Byzantine Empire 395 - 1453
Mongols 1000 - 1500
HRE 936 - 1517
Delhi Sultanate 1206 - 1526
Rus 882 - 1552
English 850-1555
French 840-1559
Chinese 907-1644
Malians 1226 - 1670
Ottomans 1300 - 1923

According to you, Byza should have a bad Imperial age… What about their Dark, Feudal and Castle age? Based on your logic they should have robots that throw laser beams from their eyes and instakill everything. Since they were the absolute No 1 entity regarding money, power, influence and technology for centuries. Right?

Do you see how absurd is your thinking?

Oh please… Please check your facts before you write stuff like that.

We do not have the Abbasid Caliphate in the game that ended with the sacking of Bagdad, it’s the Abbasid Dynasty that ended with the sacking of Cairo in 1517 by the Ottomans.

The Byzantine Empire was in serious decline since 1250 and was shit on for 200 years by pretty much everybody who felt like it (Crusaders, Bulgarians, Ottomans…) until it completely crumbled when the Ottomans took Constantinople in 1453. At that time the Byzantine Empire only consisted of a shadow of itself, Constantinople was the very last stronghold of Byzantinian former glory. It was sad.

The Mongols also just fit my statement, since the 16th century starts 1501 (“The 16th century began with the Julian year 1501 (represented by the Roman numerals MDI) and ended with either the Julian or the Gregorian year 1600 (MDC) , depending on the reckoning used (the Gregorian calendar introduced a lapse of 10 days in October 1582).”). Give or take one year, I am not gonna be a #### about it because of that. But yes, the Mongols just barely made it.

So does HRE, but the HRE existed actually until 1806. It had a change of name to the Holy Roman Empire of German nation in 1512. 1517 was the year of Reformation due to Martin Luther. It was not the ending date of the HRE, but quite an impactful date altogether. Just because the game says 1517, it’s not the end of the Empire. The game just marks the Reformation, nothing else.

Dehli fits my statement, see Mongols.

So do Rus.

So do English.

So do French.

So do Chinese.

So do Malians.

So do Ottomans.

Come on… Your whole comment is just plain wrong. But that’s okay. I am happy to help.

Edit: The Byzantines should have one of if not the best feudal age and a very very potent castle age. But there is not really an age IV for them. They lacked the money to even get gunpowder. They were nothing but a victim to that time. Their culture, however, was paramount for the Renaissance, without themselves even actually reaching the Renaissance. They preserved the Roman and Greek teachings that are the foundation of the Renaissance.

People like Leon Batista Alberti (1404 to 1472) based everything they said on the Western Roman empire. He quoted Quintilian and Cicero and based his ten books about architecture on Vitruvius, the author of “De architectura libri decem”. He didn’t even bother to refer to the Byzantine Empire. Yet the Byzantine Empire was of very great importance for the western and eastern civilizations of Europe in regards of cultural advancement. I wrote a thesis about this shit.

Edit 2: Seriously… How can you not notice the bs you are talking, when you date the Abbasids’ end to 1258, when gunpowder wasn’t even known in that area until around 1300 something…? What the hell, man…

Edit 3: The Ottoman dark and feudal age is a weird thing, though. It should be Oghuz turks and Seljuks until castle age, which is the time period when the Ottoman Empire emerged.

Yes, let’s say that the Byzantines goes until 1453 and the rest of the civs goes (with a bit of flexibility, really) until the middle of the 16th century to connect with their AoE 3 counterparts…

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Devs f UP Hre and Ottomans. I agree the topic. Hre sucks. Ottoman sucks. I believe that devs gives too much care Byzantines and Japans.You will see that.

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What I don’t understand is why they don’t give each civ a rotational update. Instead of what seems to be random updates and sometimes fixes people ask for but most of the time things people did not ask for, like boiling oil nerf.


So now we know the civ variants:

Abbasid - The Sultan’s Army
China - Empire of Jade
French - Jeanne d’Arc
HRE - Order of the Dragon

I don’t know what to think of the civ variants. We know too little, but it feels weird to have alternatives to existing civs instead of incorporating these variants and keep only one civ. Especially the Western European civs feel kinda boring and lacking in depth. And what will happen to the vanilla civs of these variants? It would be weird to have French fight Jeanne d’Arc French. Or HRE fight the Order of Dragons. And what does available for multiplayer mean? Are they only available in multiplayer (which would suuuuuuuuuck) or can they also be used in singleplayer? I don’t really get it.

It will be boring for you, but they are the most played.

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What does it have to do with this topic???

A lot. Why would you want to pick vanilla HRE if you can pick a variant that might have more unique stuff and especially some Crusader themed units, since the Order of the Dragon is the continuation of the military orders of the Crusades.

Srsly… I don’t get your question.

@Adribird90 Most played doesn’t mean squat when it’s about the mechanics of the civs. If you reach age IV with European civs, you have exhausted all they offer very quickly. But with Abbasids and Chinese you have way more options at your disposal. And, well… Abbasids and China both also get variants.

" don’t care how much other people enjoy the civ, I don’t, so therefore there’s a problem"

So sick of readin this stuff. Give it a break. Even on Reddit For crying out loud. At least theres enough traffic there you get drowned out.

I always love to be shrinked on the internet. Thanks… (I’ve read your now edited part calling me narcissistic).

There is more to “most played” than just enjoying the civ. English the past few patches is the best example. Simplicity vs complexity plays a role for instance. And what you get sick of is well… Not my problem. Should I stop doing what I am doing because you say so? Did we not have this kind of discussion already (I am sorry if I am mistaking your for someone else, but I think it was you). I could get personal on you, too, for being the way you are, but I won’t. You don’t know shit about me.

Of course not, by very definition you wouldn’t accept any form of criticism.

We prove why you’re wrong, you ignore the facts and defer to your own self formed opinion.

Majority of players enjoy the civ, you don’t. Keep crying.

I very much accept criticism, but you are not criticizing, you are insulting and pretend you talk for everybody else. You spit one liners to “prove” me wrong, which I naturally do not appreciate or take seriously. Why would I? You don’t like my style or my persistence or whatever, which is fine. Just ignore me then. I know I can be annoying, but I at least try to explain what bothers me. You just act like you are stating facts, without actually ever considering what I say. Nobody is forcing you to react to me. The fact that you do the way you are, says more about you than me.

And who is “we”? What exactly was proven? You act like my view is solely exclusive, when it is not, because then I would never have anybody agree with me on anything. You cannot accept that my opinion differs from yours. You be you, I do not care and won’t attack you for it. But you seem to be somewhat obsessed with me, which is weird and quite funny to me. What’s your deal, dude?

LMAO sure buddy. Because I’m going to repeat what’s already been said

Yeah sure. Of course you would see it that way :+1: I am aware of more than one thing. Therefore I’m obsessed . Totally​:+1:

Sure because that’s what I said :roll_eyes: LMAO

The difference being, that you have been at it since like game release. This forum is pretty quiet (aside from that ottoman spammer and fans) so your whining about HRE stands out like a sore thumb for the rare occasions I come here. But yeah pretend I’m obsessed if it makes you feel better :kissing_heart:

Did I disturb your beauty sleep? The forum is quiet, so let it remain quiet, or what? Nobody is offended by me the way you are, but you act like you are the majority. You say “we” instead of “I”. You describe me as someone that is insufferable, although you actually and hilariously describe yourself. You are really something, man.

I can only promise you one thing: I won’t change anything because of you. Sleep tight, man. And get a mirror. There is nothing to gain from this here between us except pointless aggravation.

I agree. Most played civ could mean people want to enjoy the civ so they play it knowing it’s not great. Personally, I play the HRE cause I am more familiar with their history than the other civs. Does not mean I love how the civ is designed. I mean China has way more unique units and are way better in game, but I’m not familiar with all their history and dynasties so I’m not as interested.

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Thank you for your comment, I must admit it’s refreshing after this little dialogue just now. And it’s the same for me. I really like the European medieval history and especially the history of the HRE. I studied medieval studies as well as German modern and medieval literature. I play the HRE because of that and not so much because of its design. And since release I wish the design was a different one. More complex, more versatile, and definitely less one dimensional.

When I play China I am astounded by the plethora of possibilites, units and mechanics. And I wonder why the European civs, and I very much focus on the HRE, but can include French and English as well, are so simplistic in comparison.

I like HRE because my country has a long history of being part of it and for the most part it’s not being talked about a lot because we were a communist country for 50 years.

So yeah, I like HRE at the point of pride and it frustrated me that other civs have a better way of playing.

Also, as far as the Order of Dragon goes, it was founded by emperor Sigismund of Luxembourg and his wife Barbara of Cili (Barbara Celjska), so that’s an extra reason.


Yes, and the Sultan’s Army would be Saladin’s army (remember the phrase, where are you going with that army, Saladin?

The Army Of Saladin, Their Tactics And Equipment For Fighting Against The Crusaders - About History (