HRE: I am annoyed by its state. Esp. since it has been getting worse and worse

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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First off: I am not saying HRE can’t win games. This is not about them being the worst civ. It’s about them being the least unique, least innovative and least complex civ. And it is really killing the game for me.

I hate it. I hate playing AoE 4 rn. The HRE is by far my favorite civ, but it feels like it has become the stepchild of the game in the last few months. It gets nothing new, receives slight nerfs here and there, while every other civ gets way more attention. It sucks.

The HRE has the least amount of unique techs. The least amount of unique units. The least amount of available tactics. They excel at nothing, they have the worst army. The only thing that is exceptionally good is Aachen eco and bombard towers. That’s it.

There are two ways of playing HRE: Aachen into Regnitz, which is not even that strong anymore considering the changes to other civs. And Aachen into Burgrave, which is probably the most annoying and stupid tactic in the whole game aside from villager and tower rushing. I hate Burgrave and everything it stands for. 400% of bullshiat, because Relic bothered to actually give this civ some solid boni. What civ could get a Burgrave landmark without becoming completely broken? There is not a single civ that can get the percentages that HRE gets from their landmarks, because it would make them completely overpowered.

And that’s the issue: The HRE has overtuned landmarks to offset all their other shortcomings of being a basic and not very unique civ. And Meinwerk is just not good enough to do anything about it.

And then this current patch hits the live servers that is aimed towards improving the uniqueness of civs by adding techs and units and the HRE gets nothing. They do not even have the best MAA anymore. Those are, among other exceptional units and techs, the Abbasid Ghulams now. I feel like I am playing an unfinished and very basic civ when playing the HRE. A civ that simply has a lot less mechanics and tactics at its disposal than the other civs.

I am a HRE player. I only rarely play the other civs. Mainly to learn them and their weaknesses. And I am sick of it. I am sick of maining a civ that just offers less than the others and has nothing exceptional for their military. Inspired Warriors sucks, good techs are hidden in inferior landmarks, there is no army comp you really wanna go for. It’s just throwing trash units at the opponent while towering and culverining up. If you build an expensive unit, the opponent in general can build a better version of it. It’s just bad.

And the forums are full of suggestions for the HRE. There are so many possibilities. Among other things I studied European history with a focus on the German medieval age and literature. And I find the HRE in this game to be a travesty of what it should be. The Landsknecht… Oh man… What a sad version of what they should be. Sure, they can demolish. But only when they connect. And they die from looking at them. It’s just… weird design. They are neither cost nor pop effective. You can get good clips with them, tho… Every civ can mass their unique units and have them as a core element of the army. Not so HRE. Nope. They are the sad exception.

If the next patch adds tons of new and fun things again, but the HRE stays the way it is, then I feel like I am out of hope and just quit the game, although I am very passionate about AoE in general. If you main HRE, the game stood still the last few months and has become stale. It’s like everybody else is getting jobs, finding wives, starting families, living in their own houses, while the HRE still is living with their Moms… It’s unbearable.

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I’ve been a HRE player since the beginning, and feel they don’t have enough options like the another civs. You can still win but feels like its more of a fighting battle to win. There still my fav civ but mainly playing RUS now.

We got 2 ways to play, eco and build the most basic units in the game or Military and spam maa

If you look at a civ like English they suppose to be a defence civ and still have all the tools, early rush, free gold bonus, best keep landmarks in the game. They even get 2 of them lol

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Agreed, I can’t believe how little changes this civ have had in 2 years almost. Devs are dead silent on any future plans with HRE and seem to just ignore the civ altogether.

And whenever you post something about it people will come with the good old “But HRE MAA is the best MAA in the game.” Yeah it’s the one good unit in the entire roster, and it gets slammed on by mass crossbows anyway. And every civ has MAA so it’s not really a unique unit anyway. MAA is not a fun unit to mass, but the game dictates that you have to in order to win with HRE.

It’s not like LS will have any major impact on the game except for those rare instances where they don’t instantly die from whatever and actually gets to swing a couple of swings. Their attack animation and pathing is horrible btw.

I say, nerf HRE all you want, but please. Please please please please, give us more unique MILITARY units. The only civ I play, among with Mongols. But if they keep ignoring this civ, then I’m out as well.

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Specially HRE Meinwerk Palace doesnt work without aachen they nearly have no resource bonus they cant compete with other civs i lost every game with Meinwerk Palace.The +2 armours not enough maybe it can have a prelet range increase tech or a relic gold income increase %50 more tech

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Jeepers, I didnt know that HRE only had access to maa in the barracks, stables, archery range, siege workshop.

Bruh, not too long ago, HRE got +2 armor for knights in imperial. Prelates can buff viably now. Possibly the strongest spears and horsemen in age 2 with the new riveted chainmail.

Just use mass horsemen/lands combo.

From an HRE lamer.

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2nd paragraph of my comment just proved my point.

Thanks for commenting.

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I was wrong i was having hard time at first but when i get use to hre play style i shred enemy to pieces @Doeswegotta thank you for advice landsnake, horseman combo with prelet buff really kills it.Also with prelet buff hre has the strongest knight and handcannoneer they are really amazing.

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I am not talking about comps and stuff like that. I am talking about the blandness of the civ, its limitations, its lame army, its useless mechanics, its dependency on overtuned landmarks, its lack of unique upgrades and units… The whole civ revolves around too much of the same, offers too little variation and simply lacks uniqueness in comparison to other civs. And it got ignored in a patch that focussed on “improving every civ’s uniqueness”. And yeah, the two upgrades in Meinwerk are nice, they give the army at least some variation and a bit of power, but playing Meinwerk sucks due to being way too dependent on Aachen. And don’t tell me differently, please. Going Meinwerk offers a much weaker economy and also a much slower age up, risking getting relics for a Regnitz play. And Burgrave is, besides the fact that I hate everything about it, very eco intensive. There are too many downsides to Meinwerk. And even if these techs would be baseline, even then the civ lacks a useful buff mechanic (inspired warriors as it is doesn’t cut it) and at least! one additional unique unit.

Imagine this civ without inspiration: It’s basic to the max. Strip it of its landmarks, and there is barely anything unique about the civ. It’s very lackluster and just doesn’t hold up when compared to the other civs, which simply have more depth than the HRE. I am sick of weak units and mass towers in lategame to compensate the lack of army synergy.

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Sounds like ya wanna play chinese, tbh.

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I’d like it if the depth of Chinese was the goal for every civ. Not a copy of China, but an equally big roster of possibilities and choices.

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Flexibility comes at the cost of power y’know.

HRE is predictable but the few game plans it has are pretty hard to actually stop - you cant really raid em if they make the right counter units, and they dont need any kind of map pressure until mid castle if they choose to turtle boom.

This civ pretty much sets the tone and pace of the game as its main thing. Diversity is more for reactive civs that are a step behind in time so if thats the change you want, the first tradeoff is security.

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Ottomans is the worst than Hre. Build military academy, spam the units so this is the strategy of devs. Ottomans is most boring civ in the game.

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I am so done with this season. HRE literally is all about Aachen eco, it’s paramount to be able to play this civ at all. In lower leagues you beat most opponents easily with Burgrave, because it’s a terribly designed landmark overshadowing all the shortcomings of this civ and allowing to end the game early, so the shortcomings do not become too apparent. And that’s it. Regnitz is really not a game changer of any sort any more, 2 tc play HRE doesn’t get relics anyway since every civ is better at building an army and going to age III. Feudal MAA do not work against Delhi and Ottoman anymore, which is not terrible, but comes without any compensation. HRE literally offers nothing, the worst army, the most overtuned landmarks which would make any other civ completely broken, it has the shittiest mechanics and you don’t even use their buff ability, because it is so bad.

HRE revolves only around landmarks and way too little around being an unique civ. Your age II landmarks are not a choice, Meinwerk just proves how trash HRE actually is without Aachen. The prelate eco is bad, the army is bad, the techs are lacking… You have no tactical dimension, it’s always the same.

I am all about nerfing Aachen and buffing the civ in general. Especially give it some new stuff, units, techs, less dependency on Aachen etc… What are you supposed to go for army wise when aiming for age IV? Everything HRE has is inferior. So you always only react with trash units to the superior opponent and you build towers to compensate. That little power there is is locked behind Meinwerk inferiority and even with Meinwerk being baseline, HRE would still have a rather weak army.

And then several civs get some kind of elite units for no freaking reason… Ghulams, Sipahi, Ghazis… Why are they all just better versions of the base units and why is HRE being ignored, although they offer the least uniqueness? Why does HRE only have base units and only 2 MAA techs that could easily be merged into one, because they are so similar? There is not a single other unit upgrade tech, unless you wanna cut yourself in the flesh by going Meinwerk. HRE is just terrible. And it can’t win vs Ottoman. It was hard before, but now with the Sipahi bs, the Mehter overkill, the free units and cheaper military buildings it’s just impossible. They always have more and their units are always better.

I am really fed up. This season is done for me. I just stop playing. And if next season becomes another “let’s ignore HRE and make them stay in their pathetic little state that focuses on landmarks and nothing else” then I’ll also stop caring. How can a civ have landmarks that buff the whole eco by a large amount or lets you produce units 400% faster? Because it has nothing else. That’s the only reason. People saying “HRE has so crazy landmarks” always ignore that HRE doesn’t have anything else that is remotely powerful or can be gone for in a stream lined fashion. It’s always “ough, how can I make this work?” and it’s always a hassle.

It is such a boring civ, but the only civ I want to play. Joke’s on me, I guess…

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Yes, I agree…compared to the other civs, the HRE feels very simple having few UU…

Yes, I liked the first Burgrave better, ultimately it would be more efficient if they included more UU as they did with the English with the King in the Abbey of the Kings…

Yes, I would change the HRE MAA for the Teutonic Knight, it would be slow but very strong like its AoE 2 version…

Yes, I agree, in the next season I would have to improve the HRE (landmarks and civ bonuses) and give it some other UUs along with the English and French…

New Feudal Age HRE UU (1000-1200):

Teutonic Knight (Replace the HRE MAA. Represents the Crusades (1095-1291))

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New Castle Age HRE UU (1200-1400):

Hussite Wagon (Replace the HRE Springald. Represents the Hussite Wars (1419-1434))

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New Imperial Age HRE UUs (1400-1600):

Bavarian Villager Wagon (Can be builded in the Mills. It gathers twice as fast than Villagers but also costs wood, uses up two population, and has a much lower train limit. Represents the Protestant Reformation (1517-1555) in the HRE with mass exiles)

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Reiter (Horse Archer but with a pistol. Represents the Schmalkaldischer Wars (1546-1552) and the Eighty Years War (1568-1648))

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So you would have 6 UUs for the HRE:

Dark Age: Prelate

Feudal Age: Teutonic Knight

Castle Age: Landsknecht and Hussite Wagon

Imperial Age: Villager Wagon and Reiter

But the Ottomans have vizier points that give you some flexibility during the game until you reach imperial…maybe 2 more vizier points per level wouldn’t hurt either…instead of 9, the vizier points should be 15…

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I think a good way to make Meinwerk useful, would be to move the monasteries to 2 era, with the addition of making them like the Aachen Chapel but without being able to use it as a storage point for resources, counting that it is a landmark of 2 era, it would give rise to new strategies, moving the use of prelates as units for other functions, without having to randomly put them in the economy

it would be useful to give him a new infantry unit with the halberd, similar to a pikeman but with the possibility of being like a weaker Landsknecht that you can do in 2 era

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it would be useful, change the Burgrave and allow it instead of being able to create infinite units a buff, which if it has within it relics to a buff to all the infantry,

At least it would change the meta, without having to play for gold

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Elzbach palace make it different, instead of making the surrounding buildings with 33% less attacks suffered, allow to make all military constructions with lower cost

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Hopefully a few new unique units and some rework to landmarks would be in the works? They haven’t seen much attention. In my opinion the landsknecht needs to go. Would be nice to see a Teutonic Knight on horseback. HRE simply doesn’t have the firepower that the English and French have, not even close.

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And also that the new UUs can be created in the Burgrave Palace…

It could be too…in AoE 2 TLK you have the Bulgarian Konnik that dismounts when you take it down and in AoE 3 KoTM you have European native units that can be dismounted; the Teutonic Knight could be one of those…a standard heavy Knight that you can dismount it and it would become a heavy infantry unit type like an MAA…

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After playing couple games with meinwark i find it very good specially when you get the knight armor bonus.When you combined it with prelet buff those knights kills everything its the best knight in the game.

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