It currently makes very little sense that HRE Man at Arms have two separate upgrades in the same tier at the same building.
I think with HRE still near the bottom of most tier lists and to open up actually staying tier 2 instead of being “forced” to tier 3, moving the Two handed Weapon upgrade for +2 damage to tier 2 would help solidify HRE identify.
Landsknecht still need a clearly defined role (one not involving having “low health”). Having an AOE attack actually is anti melee, which the Man at Arms excel at.
So I think the Landsknecht needs to be the ranged unit counter. So possibly the AOE damage radius needs a slight change to compensate but the unit for 60 food / 100 gold (160) total, needs to primary have:
- More Health
- And (unless given a lot of health) More Ranged Armor.
I think they are in a similar situation to Horsemen after the Horsemen nerf. Where their role isn’t clearly defined anymore.
- HRE Infantry need a clearly defined roll from each other (Landsknecht to counter range units by stat design)!
- A different direction for Landsknecht is needed (other than countering range).
- HRE are Fine.
- HRE need something else instead.
I agree with that the HRE´s Maa is packed with upgrades that make no real sense and I didnt get the Landsknechts working in over 100 games -.-
I dont know a good solution for the landsknechts but in my opinion the HRE is missing at least one specific Unit or some unit upgrades that makes them unique.
There feeling quite blank army wise in comparison to the other factions and i would love to see a special infantry range unit for them.
The HRE got clearly the short end of the stick this patch.
There Spearman are buggy like Dehlis that they CANT brace vs kavalery and that was a qulity of life change for everyone. Oh not realy for HRE and Dehli.
The coverins have a setup time exept in there unit decription is written that they shoudnt have one…
HRE is atm a mess…
The HRE needs the Ritterbruder, they butcher ranged units while looking awesome.
3 Likes
I love this idea. Adding on to this, I think it would be awesome if they took inspiration from the Konnik mechanics in AoE2. So, Rittenbruder could start as a cavalry unit, but then convert to an infantry unit when they are dismounted. So, technically a unique Cavalry unit to contend with Archers, but still staying true to their infantry focus.
4 Likes
Two upgrades in the same tier just don’t make sense for a unit like this.
I have been preaching this concept since day one. The idea is so obvious, shame Relic has left the HRE flavorless.
“landsknecht should counter ranged units by stat design” yes, because infantry without shields should LOGICALLY counter ranged units. idk what HRE mains are smoking but holy moly
About question related to MMA upgrades, i would propose to unify those 2 upgrades into decent combination of both, so it is balanced.
about landsknecht i have experienced their poor performance when i twice tried to complete tier 8 mastery for HRE- kill 50 enemies with landsknecht, i played twice against hard AI mixing landsknecht into MMA mass and using them as raidinig unit, killing vilagers, and i swear i was sure in both cases i killed enough stuff, but didnt.
current iteration of landskencht is joke, when main meta is siege {magonels}, they die like no tomorow 
How about removing landskencht and adding in the Reiter cavalry? A Pistol early renaissance cavalry unit with some ranged armor (they usually had armor), they could give a nice mechanic to them, just like one shot from medium range and two shots from a shorter range? Something like 20 dmg per hit, so at short range they are exposed but deadlier, just an idea. u.u
This, yeah. The MAA’s new role of soaking up ranged damage is one of the few good changes compared to AOE2’s infantry… I wouldn’t touch that.
The Landsknecht should’ve been a breaker unit (charge in, do massive damage against bunched up units, and then maybe retreat). At least that’s how they designed it. It’s just really weak stats wise and can’t perform that job without getting killed horribly.
I’d like to see some kind of massive alpha attack that needs to recharge (run in, swing that mofu of a sword, and get back before getting stuck in a prolonged fight). A bit like the Burgundian UU in AOE2 (or the current knight/Lancer). Combined with a massive HP increase so they can actually reach their target and can benefit from being prelate-healed after retreating.
If used in that manner, they should shred other melee units (which would force the opponent to pursue and finish them off while recharging, preferably leading the pursuers into the improved HRE defenses). If used in prolonged melee, the cost should make them ineffective against other gold units (knights and MAA).
They should also remodel that sword to represent a nice and beefy Zweihänder. Not that toothpick they currently wield. Some non-baseball-bat-swinging animations would also be nice, but now I start dreaming…
Does any of that help to define any character for the civ? I doubt it. Their knights are pointless and so is their light cav… prelates are still bugged and kinda useless on the battlefield. They still rely heavily on printing jesus-monies with the 3 relics landmark. Their whole lineup doesn’t lend itself to any different gameplan than MAA+Siege and a bit of Stronghold larping : P
1 Like