The upcoming hulk will be a short range melee-damage-dealing ship, to simulate boarding which was the primary method used at the time, until cannons were mounted on broadside to offer enough firepower to make them the primary weapon (the most famous early use would be against the Spanish Armada, outside of AOE2’s itmeline). I think adding them is great. However, there is the issue of capturing ships which was quite common, once you take control of an enemy ship you had the option of keeping it.
When capturing an enemy ship, you had to split your crew so that some would man the captured ship, so it was a tradeoff. A fleet caught returning from a battle with captured ships would thus be much weaker than its paper strength as instead of 1 ship at full capacity, you had 2 at a partial one. Capture should also be a deliberate decision, you decide whether you capture the ship or not. And it should not be random as randomness decreases strategy. So here’s my concept :
Have a “capture” button so that when a ship is defeated by the hulk, it’s converted (the enemy ship’s hp must fall to 0 to actually beat it, not a random timer). This conversion is immune from the heresy tech as this isn’t a religious matter, it’s not its crew defecting to the enemy and you won’t try the hull of the captured ship for heresy. Upon capturing that ship :
- The hulk loses half of its remaining hp, to portray having part of its crew be transfered to the new one
- The captured ship falls to 1 hp, plus half the hp that the hulk had before capture.
- Both ships also have a speed debuff (of say 20%) until fully repaired. With a smaller crew they cannot sail optimally.
For example, my hulk still had 50 hp when defeating an enemy ship, with the capture option turned on. My hulk thus falls to 25 hp, while I get the captured ship with 25 hp. Both are slower until repaired.
So, you have the choice of either keeping your hulk at high strength by ignoring the defeated ship which will sink due to damage or be scuttled, or capture the ship, giving you 2 weaker ships, that would need being sent back to port for repairs to get a new crew. This will make capture a risk/reward calculation that you can fully plan around, instead of being immediately snowbally.
- Add capture with tradeoffs (my proposition)
- Make the capture without tradeoff
- No capture option
No.
- It would make naval battles way too snowbally.
- Water maps already require more APM than land maps; it’s not good to increase the requirement.
- It’s an unnecessary complexity.
Keep them as purely fire ship counters.
It’s precisely designed not to be. You don’t just convert the enemy ship, you get a weakened one and weaken your own ship by doing such. Wrongly calculated, your ships will be sunk like paper boats, especially in the heat of battle.
Hard to know how to respond.
On the one hand, would this be a clearer representation of boarding than the one the hulk currently has? Yes.
On the other hand, do I want yet another new mechanic in the game? No.
So I think it’s a no from me, because the game has too many mechanics already – no reflection on this mechanic specifically, which I think is quite clever.
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Yes, it is a good idea that emcompases both problems, about the “this is just a reskin of the fire ship” and the “what is the point on boarding a ship if you can’t capture the other ship?”
It gives THE OPTION to make strategy and think
- Would I send this ship alone to explore?
- Is this ship here alone a bait strat to loose one cheap fire ship and kill them bot when they are weakened by the capture mechanic?
I have questions about your mechanic;
1- does it has HP and speed penalties against fishingships also?
2- Should carrack line be able to attack land units?
3- If the ship’s power comes from the people onboard, should monks heal them?
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1- I haven’t thought about fishing ships (why bother capturing such a small ship instead of a bigger prize ?), and as stealing one is more profitable than destroying it, I still want to keep the risk of choosing to board, making the action punishable by the opponent’s ships. So I guess the hp & speed would still apply as some of the crew would be transfered to it. Maybe only have 25% of the hp transfered as fishing ships are smaller, but it’s a balance question.
2 - it’s always weird to see melee units fight ships so I don’t see why carracks couldn’t defend themselves, this might be the crew leaving the ship to fight on shore. Obviously the capture would only work against ships.
3- no as no amount of healing can make the crew double back to regular size 
but it’s an issue caused by not having a separate hull hp & crew hp on the ship, ideally the hull would have remained as is and only the crew is split, but AOE2’s ship model is too simple for that.
What if the charge bar functions like the crew HP? and when you capture a ships, it halfs and cannot capture another until its full, and it slowly goes up only upong reaching a dock (only), still with every capture should be a HP loss and speed limitation for the sake of balance
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Maybe replace the hp loss with a decreased attack speed (-50%) then ? It would simulate the intact hull but decrease the attack potential more realistically.
I hadn’t thought of a hard limit of how long you’d have to wait between 2 captures, but losing half the remaining hp every time while being at a reduced speed made it a death sentence to face any enemy ship.
Yes yes, so in a abstract simulation of a battle, the charge bar would represent the crew, and halving that bar without the ability to do the same capture action until replenish already force you to come back to dock, ok ok, and the movement speed penalty seems apropiate for representing the lack of manpower rowing, so far so good
That mean that the balance factor for capturing a fishing ship would be that you are slow enought to be relentlessly harassed by enemy ships
In that scenario, what should be done about the captured ship? should it remain as the “HP=0 enables convertion” “convertion set HP=half original HP” or perhaps a simplification is better?
Like, the carrack line when attacking drops their hooks and inmovilice bot of the ships and the other ships got a charge bar of his own that when full(faster when more carracks are involved), gets converted, the hooked ship could still atack the carrack, but can’t move, and the carrack does not do damage anymore
I like the possibilities that this new line opens, hoping for the best implementation
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It depends on how you want to complexify it. With the idea of an action bar representing the crew, then every ship could have a “crew hp” affecting its speed and attack speed if it’s decreased, that would be mostly relevant against hulks (but also take damage from other sources, as arrows cannonballs… would also kill some in addition of damaging the hull). If implemented, the ship’s hull would remain as is upon capture (as hulks would only damage the crew hp) and the captured ship would have a very low crew hp which would automatically decrease its speed and attack speed. The transfer between the hulk and the captured ship would be on that “crew hp bar”, and any debuff would be downstream from its level.
Emptying either of the bars would be needed to kill the ship : either it outright sinks (hull hp empty), or it’s crew is all dead so with no one to man it, it will drift away with no one to control it at the first big wave it encounters so sinking anyway.
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I like the suggestion, but then opponent will just delete the ship just before HP fall to 0. I think ship being captured should not be allowed to delete when there is no randomness involved at all (I think that is reason why randomness in conversion mechanics ever introduced)
1- the opponent would not know if you picked the capture option or not. As it’s a choice between keeping or scuttling the hull, the defender would not know what the attackers plan to do, before they act on it. As opposed to a monk for which it’s clear he’s trying to convert you (if some Jehovah’s Witness knock on my door, it’s not to sell me some aspirine…)
2- mathematically the result would be more or less balanced between capture or not, as both ships would be weaker if the capture happens. It mainly becomes profitable if you can get both ships repaired, as repairs are cheaper than the hp fraction of building it new.
So even assuming he knows and reacts, it makes more sense to keep dealing damage until your ship dies or is captured, than deleting it. The math is different from a monk in which conversion is just an opportunity cost for the monk : both the hulk and the captured ship would be very vulnerable to your other warships, especially ranged (low health & slower).