Your argument makes no sense. It has no point actually.
I am not talking about you being paid here. I’m not even talking about you, so stop making this about you. I am talking about the dev of this game needing to think things through more carefully about how they implement changes.
exactly, that is just how your argument was. prove me wrong by doing all the work for me otherwise I won’t believe you.
when you have discussion, often times people are talking on general terms and this is easy to see with original ES employee no longer part of current WE team, which should be enough proof of what ive said earlier.
and I am not saying definite 100% people dont know fully how it works.
and somehow the last line is prompting you to asking people finding codes for you to prove you wrong? surely there are codes are easy for individual & stuff that are hard to others, but overall it holds true. even if you are very good at what you’re doing, when you step into completely new area, you will need time to adapt.
Uh no. It was never about “prove me wrong.” Read it carefully. I was debunking the commonly regurgitated idea about how “because there are different people on the WE team, we can’t code properly. Thats BS.” Answer me, how did are they able to release DLC, which adds and subtract elements to the game. We don’t have to talk about ME finding code. This is utterly irrelevant to the reasoning and logic behind your argument here.
And the last point about the disconnect was simply a point I agree on. It’s a disconnect. Does it take too much brainpower for people to think, “oh wait, maybe we should add a person in who can gap that bridge between engineers and people who play the game and know what the needs are?”
I think the disconnect is most likely larger than what you or I can imagine. I mean this isn’t just a pathing, which just happen to be the example used here, there are various bug and issue too.
there are obviously other reason like priorities vs not enough staff etc, or money is also very part of it as well.
Well yes, pathing is just an example here. And it’s a good, concrete example because anyone who plays this game will experience it.
So if they just add a person who plays the game and go around on the forums and steams/streams to listen to what people are saying, they would know what is NEEDED by the community right? And that person can relay the needs back to the engineers. Wouldn’t that make the game a smoother, well developed?
And there it is, your very last point and keyword: PRIORITY. It is more lucrative to create DLC than fixing bugs. Thus why people are frustrated and angry at how the game is turning out. They just keep trying to build a pretty house on top of a bog. Who cares about the foundation… it’s all about the money grab.
We know they can do what needs to be done. But their priority is out of order.
so theres a few things to note is that
when you have someone thats PAID to do work, they keep telling you its fixed and working well and turns out its not, theres only a few things going on but just off top of my head
the above of course is not 100% but a mix of them but saying one would out weigh the other in its own category
I just dont think priority plays the role here, given that bad pathing is always talked about by streamers and make them look worse, which they are trying to get big on esports scene and it’ll have opposite effect.
if its #2 then you’d be correct. but I think its more towards 1, or 4 or combination of 1/4 mostly
edit: adding other possibilities
I actually see merit in what you said, and agree to quite a bit here. So tbh, I’m not sure why we seem to got off on the wrong foot at start LOL. But anyhow,
“1. they are incompetent
2. they dont give a damn
3. priority? which should be high up on their list”
Yes, yes, and money speaks. I can’t say for certain, just speculating at this point, but I suspect it’s their upper management that’s directing them to focus on DLC instead of fixing bugs. IMO, this MAYBE*, keyword, maybe, profitable in short term gains, but in the long term? They will build a crap reputation for themselves. I know I won’t be buying any game coming from them. I actually haven’t bought any DLC because of this.
We the customers vote with our dollar. And I voted to not buy any games and support them because of how they’ve been handling the issues of this game. I will not buy any of their games/DLC until they set their priorities straight.
I think you should touch grass a little bit. You come in saying ‘there is a way to fix pathing, the devs simply don’t want to and are too bad to do it’ implying you know how to fix it. So - tell us. Yes, you’re not paid to develop the game, neither are any of us paid to help finding bugs or beta-test the new pathfinding algorithm.
What was the point of what you posted though? Just to whinge incessantly like the fifth thread about how awful everything is? You could’ve simply… not posted that. The post is empty, because you don’t know how to fix the pathfinding and if you did, you’d let the devs know.
A lot of pathing complaints are with villagers, which are not in any sort of formation.
I do think it’s within their ability, but I can also see why they haven’t managed to ‘fix pathing’ yet. Because, surprise - it’s a very complex matter. It’s also something that they have to do as high priority, but also have to think about making new things, because a DLC that’s marketed as ‘bug and pathfinding fixes’ won’t sell. I don’t know the size of their dev teams, but I don’t think they are at the size of a AAA company that can crank everything out in a timely manner. I wouldn’t be surprised if the current release under Microsoft terms forces them to release DLCs at a certain timeframe even though they’d wish to delay the release themselves because they know some parts are unfinished. And I see you agree with this too.
Equating a game development to the work of doctors is wild, though.
I should touch grass?
I go fishing, hunting, shoot guns in the desert, do archer, lift at the gym, run on tracks. Tell me, what do you think you think you know about me, or anything just in general? Do you even do any of these things? I highly doubt it. Take your own advice before you give it to someone else.
Anyway, I see that your reply is focus on attacking me personally instead of making a case for your white knighting argument. Okay, I see how you are.
If you want to go down that childish path, I will not engage with you in the future. Let’s keep it clean and simple.
As for pathing, it’s not difficult to see how unit formation plays a huge role in messing up the pathing of the game. I’ve said this in many threads, just make it an active feature. It should solve a lot of grief with it. This is well within the dev’s ability. But they choose not to, rather, they never put thoughts into it and tried it.
It’s their lack of effort and thoughtfulness that’s at fault here. Many players are expressing the same feeling, and rightfully so.
And no, not a lot of pathing complains are with vils. I see a lot more on micro’ing groups, attack move, and trebs being horrendous. This is a grouping formation issue. You’re grasping for straws here.
You are making excuses for their poor performance. Just stop white knighting for it. You won’t earn any brownie points. They won’t promote you. You wont get any favors.
All they have to do is show feedbacks like this directly to their upper management and say, “See this? we are not pleasing our customers. We need to allocate our time and resources accordingly.” Focus on making the game better, not pushing DLC.
Lastly, I understand speaking in analogy is not everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s difficult for you to understand the concept with a different example, I will skip the analogy and save it for someone who can think abstractly.
Peace.
my vills went side ways and then after like 3 tiles in the opposite direction only then it starts walking towards the target. thats like 6-7 extra tiles walked.
vill just finished building something and task to build another, and it takes the long way almost every time. if its more than 50% over to 1 side it should be closer but instead of 50% its gotta be like 75% closer otherwise it’ll always take the longer way around.
fml
Practise what you preach and you’ll understand what I meant eventually.
You fail to read properly - I said a lot of the pathing complaints are about villagers. There can also be (and there are) a lot of complaints about army micro and pathfinding. The point was - your proposed change does not singlehandedly fix the pathing issues in the game, as villagers are not military units and thus would continue to have problems. Therefore, you have not magically solved pathing in the game and your initial response to @Apocalypso4826 about there being a fix for pathing, is false. Which was the point of my first reply to you.
You get immediately defensive and obtuse, dismissing people pointing out that fixing pathing indeed is not a simple task done through one toggle by calling them white knights. It’s easy to dismiss people like that, but you portray yourself as just highly ignorant instead. Your hostility leads to you failing to properly discuss the problems with other users on the forums because you would indeed understand we all have misgivings with the game. But incessant whining about how the devs don’t want to fix the game and whatnot serves no purpose except to just vent your own personal frustrations out in the open and creating a more hostile space for all.
We aren’t making excuses for the devs and if you can’t properly read that from what other users have already posted, that’s on you, sorry.
You could have taken literally any other service job and your analogy would be better, but I guess speaking in analogy indeed isn’t everyone’s cup on tea and perhaps you should leave making analogies for people who can think abstractly, since you don’t seem to understand why your analogy was bad.
Peace.
All well and good, but doesn’t really explain why there’s been basically no net progress in a few years and seemingly a net regression during that time. Considering that Voobly and even earlier versions of DE are widely considered to have had better overall pathing, it seems like the problem already had a reasonably good solution.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/17sjydz/early_pathing_was_better_in_aoe2de/
I’m all for acknowledging the difficulties of the problem, but I don’t think you have to believe in fairy tales to imagine that even with the existing constraints, a much better result could have been achieved by now. Surely a lot of effort has been put into this, but I don’t know that there’s really anything to show it for beyond the substitution of one failure mode for another. This could change at any time if they finally get and keep it under control, but until then, every announcement of “improved pathing” just sounds like spinning wheels that go nowhere.
Aoe4 pathing is really good. Units don’t bump into each other and get stuck. Maybe they can copy that
In AOE4 units don’t seem to collide at all, they overlap. Thats a different problem all together.
Then why do villagers get stuck? They don’t even have any unit formations.
I would say the pathing compared to DE’s release was much better even in the last months, maybe before TMR. And honestly, the player feedback / perception of how good the current pathing was when it was in Singleplayer only… was good. I don’t know if they’ve since then changed some things about it, but everyone had the chance to test the new pathing algorithm out and give feedback on it.
The problems with pathing are complex, as you’ll ever only realise how good or bad it is once everyone starts playing it. If five noobs test it out and see ‘oh look, my Knights are taking better engagements against Crossbowmen’ and don’t realise that the formation change also exists and might pose problems… they’re going to give that feedback and the devs might think ‘oh sweet our new algorithm is doing well!’
I don’t really know how they’re testing these things internally. I wonder if it’d help the developers if they asked the pro players (and by whom I mean the likes of TheViper, Hera, Liereyy, etc.) to test it out by having them play some matchups head to head… if they haven’t already, that is.
Another part of the problem is that… when things go well, we forget that things are going well. We only remember the bad things, so the fixes to pathing problems at the launch of DE get forgotten and whatever new problems arise start giving off the impression that the pathing is ########## in a player’s view. Especially when you also account for players adjusting to the problems. They get used to pathing problems and once that changes (for worse or even better!) it’ll still be a change and the players might be caught unawares and still think pathing got worse, when instead something might’ve gotten fixed instead.
Of course, there are also new bugs and problems with pathing (or something else entirely) that are besides the point - units getting stuck on their own while spawning on completely free area, units getting stuck when you’ve used formation changes on them, and so on. But I find this topic really silly in of itself - setting yourself the expectation that pathing gets fixed with a hotfix is… just unrealistic. Things like the relic bug were both easier to fix and a more glaring issue to fix.
aoe4 units have relly high input lag, that’s probably the time it takes to compute the path, it makes the units feel really floaty. To me that feeling alone is reason enough to not play that game
Firstly,
I never said pathing is perfect with this game, not even remotely close to that.
Second,
Unit formation is a huge contributing factor to bad pathing, and especially micro. But it’s not the only issue with pathing.
Last,
IMO, bad pathing is much more damaging when it comes to military unit control because you are in the heat of the battle. You just can’t afford to have your archers doing a stupid shuffle dance and moving no where while mangonels and knights are attacking them. Vils however, are usually* safe in town. Yes there are times they get attack by enemies, but it’s not as critical. So, they should focus on fixing pathing for military units first, meaning, address unit formation. Of course if they improve pathing, it will improve for vils too.
