I dont want a roman civ in aoe2

[ArkadasLlisa]

I don’t want to play as Pon… Romans

[ArkadasLlisa]

It was just for fun, people are free to argue that Romans doesnt deserve a spot on AoE II

[AndyPXIII]

It is great that there’s interest in the Romans. Since AoE2 civs only get a couple of unique units and buildings, I am not sure it’s a great fit to do justice to the mighty Roman Empire. But hopefully everyone will still have fun with them!

[ZeroEinna]

When designing a civilization for the format that Age of Empires II offers, you can only do the best you can. It is not a big worry as the players largely know that much. Make them fun and somewhat faithful, that is the formula for success.

[FloosWorld]

2’s engine is capable of doing stuff like local buffs to units/buildings (see Power Cores and Shield Generators from Galactic Battlegrounds that runs on the same engine) so I guess despite following the “rules” of a traditional AoE 2 civ with 2 unique techs and 2-3 unique units, the potential Roman civ should do justice to the historical counterpart.

[Icarus]

There’s a part of me that agrees. I kinda wish they would just update AoE 1 DE instead.

[ArkadasLlisa]

SWGB runs on a branched Genie engine. IRC AoE II doesn’t have support for that features and they should be coded again.

[FloosWorld]

Well, the Caravanserai buffs speed of local trade carts, so seems like such features are in the game (again)

[Skadidesu]

Buffing nearby units was originally a planed feature for AoE2 so there is likely some code for it in the game already. Not sure how well the Caravanserai mechanic works for moving units.

Originally monks carrying relics were supposed to buff nearby units.

[grizzgolf]

@AndyPXIII

It is great that there’s interest in the Romans. Since AoE2 civs only get a couple of unique units and buildings, I am not sure it’s a great fit to do justice to the mighty Roman Empire. But hopefully everyone will still have fun with them!

We want Romans it looks like

[SlagterJimmy]

Byzantine Empire the eastern half of the Roman Empire, which survived for a thousand years after the western half had crumbled into various feudal kingdoms and which finally fell to Ottoman Turkish onslaughts in 1453.

[thieftdp8498]

roman roman romans!!!

[Prokman7582]

@Tyranno13

Now here’s the problem, AoE2 civs don’t seem to be based on particular empires or their political leaders. Instead they are more based on ethnic and cultural grounds from what I can see. Which means that despite Byzantines calling themselves Roman, they are not Roman by the definitions of what makes a civ a civ in AoE2.

It would be like Britons being renamed to “Franks” because the rulers post 1066 were Frankish. The general populace are still Britons and do not speak French.

In the same vain, the Byzantine populace did not speak Latin, they spoke Greek. The leaders and church spoke Latin.

Exactly (regarding the Byzantine leaders tho, only some of them spoke Latin, and the church not at all).

@CanineCrown7153

Even after the Pope recognized Charlemagne as Emperor, outside of the West, Persians, Arabs, Ethiopians and Chinese kept recognizing Constantinople as the Roman Empire

@StoreyedPlate74

Literally the rest of the Old World called them Romans (Arabs, Turks, Persians, etc.).

Arabs designated differently the inhabitants of Byzantium and of Rome tho; using the word Rum for the former and Ruman for the latter.

@StoreyedPlate74

By that logic the Roman Empire that fought the Huns should be a different civ from the one of Augustus or Trajan. As other have said, the Western amd Eastern Roman Empires were very similar in culture and military.

To both Roman Empire that fought Huns, and the one of Augustus, Latin culture was a common element. Cultural similarity with the Eastern Roman Empire tho, no. Institutional similarity, yes.

@CanineCrown7153

Eastern and Western Roman Empires are a modern construction

Eastern and Western Roman Empires are historiographical terms, not a construction. It has difference.

These historiographical terms arise from the separate administration that existed, as you know. They allow us to make necessary distinctions between ages, cultures, authorities.

@TommoChocolate

I don’t see anything here to convince me that Byzantines should be renamed to Romans. Both ‘Byzantines’ and ‘Romans’ would be correct, but ‘Byzantines’ is more specific temporally, geographically and culturally. To my mind that makes it a better fit.

That the Byzantines didn’t call themselves Byzantines is completely irrelevant: most civs are not named after what those people called themselves, and there’s no reason for them to be.

This.

As I like to say, there is a valid etymology for the historiographical term “Byzantine Empire” (as well as for the “Roman Empire”), it means the state that was centered around its capital city, which had that name.

In topic… over 24 years, for me it was OK to not have WRE in aoe2. Now, I don’t really mind about it, if devs pay attention and make WRE as they were in the 5th century. They will progress through ages like some other late antiquity civs do.

[Prokman7582]

This thread has become like “Neweasterngraecorumromanοbyzantinοconstantinopolitan Empire” long.

Fun fact:

In the texts of the fighters of the Greek war of independence of 1821, the term “Byzantine” is often used to describe the Turkish fleet. Not because the rebels saw in the Ottoman Empire the continuation of the Byzantine Empire, but because it came from Constantinople, the ancient Byzantium.

[CanineCrown7153]

@Prokman7582

In the texts of the fighters of the Greek war of independence of 1821, the term “Byzantine” is often used to describe the Turkish fleet. Not because the rebels saw in the Ottoman Empire the continuation of the Byzantine Empire, but because it came from Constantinople, the ancient Byzantium.

In the same vein, people in early 20th century still called themselves Romans

On 8 October 1912, the island of Lemnos became part of Greece after being captured from the Ottoman Empire. Peter Charanis, born on the island in 1908 and later a professor of Byzantine history at Rutgers University, recounts when the island was occupied and Greek soldiers stationed themselves in the public squares.

Some of the children ran to see what Greek soldiers looked like. ‘‘What are you looking at?’’ one of them asked.

‘‘At Hellenes,’’ the children replied.

‘‘Are you not Hellenes yourselves?’’ a soldier retorted.

‘‘No, we are Romans."

[FearfulSugar350]

errr what? we already have Roman in the game, they’re called East Roman Empire aka Byzantine.

[Tyranno13]

I swear this thread loops itself around every time someone new turns up…

[Temudhun]

Yeah, it feels like a debate with musical chairs tbh.

[MatM1996]

@FloosWorld

Well, the Caravanserai buffs speed of local trade carts, so seems like such features are in the game (again)

And also the gurjaras mills…

[RhythmicBoar556]

It’s just one big telephone line of “Byzantines were Romans” and it just goes on and on and on and on.