The British “Redcoat” is a special upgrade of the industrial age, which can roughly correspond to the Napoleonic era in the game, but the unit graphics are obviously in the 18th century, so it may be considered to apply this image to the “elite level” British musketeer. For industrial grade “Redcoat” can be made separately. The following is a reference:
I noticed that some units in the game can only be obtained once through church support, but the developers only made very delicate images for them: such as the British “Black Watch”, Russian Dragoons, Dutch Balkan Cavalry, Spanish Halberdiers, Swedish Halberdiers, Swedish Jaegers, etc., and even the French Old Guard can be counted here (because batch training can only be unlocked through the French Revolution). For the above units, the developers might consider making them unlockable through certain conditions. Otherwise, only a few of these units can appear in each round, which is a bit of a “暴殄天物” in Chinese.
In addition to the “Royal Guard” unit, other powerful military units commonly used in European civilization may also receive “special treatment” in graphics, such as the British Grenadier (you can consider changing the image after punching in), French Dragoons from Spain, musketeers from Spain, skirmishers from the Netherlands, etc. In this way, we can obtain an experience beyond Age of Empires VI, that is most of the common units of each civilization have their own special images.
The new look is wonderful (thanks devs), however the tricorn is ancient news by the Industrial Age (1800s onwards), so it could do with being a Stovepipe Shako (which they started wearing literally from 1800).
Maybe it’s because musketeer has been always considered the most standard unit with the most in-line progression of uniforms.
But when I think about the 17th century looks of stadwacht, tercio or carabineer ruyter in the industrial age, or the Napoleonic hussar, uhlan and ranger in the commerce age, that redcoat uniform becomes less out-of-place to me.
And in the Indian campaign, it’s a bit weird, there’s a mix of old and new redcoats. It all depends on which technology has been activated by trigger or AI (imperial musketeer, redcoat, or nothing for the redcoat consulate unit).
Age 4 carolean also has tricornes (so does age 2 soldado) so it’s always the case that the uniform does not agree with time progression very well.
Also the “industrial age” is around 1750s-1800s, so both tricorne and shako could fit in.
Personally I like redcoats with tricornes (as well as the mid-late 1700s uniform) because they are iconic, and more flamboyant than the veteran musketeer’s so it could deserve its own model.
But I do agree at least the imperial upgrades and consulate units should be given a more modern look, like the US regular.
Edit2: or even a “lazier” thing to do is to push the whole musketeer line’s model by one age later and re-use the scrapped age 2 model. Now all age 4 musketeers have tricornes so it’s no longer problematic.
Edit: actually now I feel that it’s not the “ages” that define musketeers’ uniform on the contrary we use musketeers’ uniform to pin the timeframe of the ages.
If you look at most other units, like hussar, pikeman, elmetto (only available in age 4!) they don’t make much sense regarding historical progression XD.
I have always been more inclined to agree with your point of view, but this time you think that the Industrial Age is defined as 1750-1800, and I strongly disagree. I am a fan of the Napoleonic era myself, and I have also consulted a lot of information because of my own MOD reasons. The industrial era musketeers and grenadiers are obviously the clothes of the Napoleonic era, so the more likely corresponding era is obviously after 1800.
As for the three-cornered hat, it was mainly popular throughout the eighteenth century, such as the Seven Years War and the American Revolutionary War (a deformed three-cornered hat in the transition period to the two-cornered hat), so the DE version gave the three-cornered hat to the musketeers of the fortress era be precise.
Moreover, in the industrial age of the game, trade routes can be upgraded to trains and railways. Trains first appeared in the 19th century, so at least from the original setting of the game (referring to Aztec, a civilization that perished in the 16th century, appeared in the game Before), it is inappropriate to define the Industrial Age as 1750-1800 anyway.
As for the Swedish carolean (I want to simply understand him as the Swedish line infantry, because carolean only appeared in the 17th and 18th centuries), at least in the imperial era he had the appearance of the Napoleonic era, but obviously the British redcoat did not.
In addition, there are various medieval units, which is indeed a problem. For example, the Spanish lancer is in the shape of the 16th century. The elmeti unit, like most mercenaries, only corresponds to a specific era. This is indeed a legacy of Age of Empires 3, or it can also be regarded as one of its characteristics.
But for now, there are a lot of video materials of the British line infantry, and the images of shako in the Napoleonic period and even the images in the Crimean War are also very typical (at least as far as I am concerned, when I mention redcoat, I think of Waterloo shako-wearing soldiers of the Duke of Wellington during the battle). In my opinion, it is unnecessary to choose the image in the game in the middle and early seventeenth century (the three-cornered hat in the later period is not such an equilateral triangle) as the final image in the game. The line infantry is not like elmeti, who was the main force of European countries until the 1860s.
Yeah I know what you mean. And I’m not disagreeing. It would definitely be better if uniform progressions are in line with history.
My point is the game never makes a strong connection between units and “ages”. For example you have a medieval knight in age 4.
For the new RG models, blue guard is a thirty years war uniform in the industrial age, most melee units look rather archaic, guard pikeman has a more modern look but Spanish tercio is more archaic.
It is true that industrial grenadier and hussar look Napoleonic, but grenadier starts having a 1700s look in age 2 (typically believed to be pinned at 1500s-1600s) and hussar has a Napoleonic look in age 2 (many civs should not have hussars in age 2 at all if we follow history).
Most non-European units are just getting a little more decorations.
So the definition of ages are rather fuzzy. It’s more like a “base tier” like in warcraft but somewhat weakly corresponds to actual ages. They extracted some units and looks from real history but then they can be placed anywhere in the game. So that’s why I started avoiding the use of “historical accuracy” but rather “historical reference”. That’s the same logic as conquistadors in El Cid, or throwing axeman in Joan of Arc, in AOE2.
Again, I would prefer it if the uniforms are made more in-line with history. What I mean is, musketeer may has been one of the few units that really agrees with age progressions, and we are more familiar with it because it is the standard military of the time, so we have a stronger belief that it should be more accurate. But it has always been like that for most other units.
That’s exactly what I think it should have been done. At least the imperial redcoat should have a modern look.
Thanks for your response, I think we are on the same page.
Age of Empires 3 is indeed not a game that strictly corresponds to the era (otherwise Aztec, Incas, the United States, and Mexico) should not appear as optional civilizations. There are also a large number of era-specific units in the game, which cannot correspond to the game for more than 500 years in history.
However, the final image of the Redcoat in the game can actually be more modern, because they are as common as the eighteenth century appearance, and there is no need to sacrifice the accuracy of the era in this easy to obtain harmony.
You’d consider my original response as a side-comment (or maybe a slight rant?) about the overall design of the game that stemmed from this discussion. I’m not disagreeing with you.
BTW, this might be some WIP or placeholders.
Remember when DE was first released most revolutionary variants look the same and a lot of revolutionary units (like crabat, hajdul, etc.) are simple reskins of regular units.
Now almost every revolutionary has a unique look. Many reskins become their own units.
Also a lot of icons got reworked to agree with the new appearance of units a while after the appearance is changed.
RG units still have no change of icons now (unlike some revolution units). Maybe this along with the imperial skin of most units will show up gradually later. That’s not monetized work, so no wonder it is slow.
My view of AOE3 (and any other AOE) is that each civ is “stapled” at a rather specific era, and age-ups is not necessarily a true age-up but that “your base/town/colony is now more advanced so you unlock better units of your era”.
In AOE3 I think it’s 1700s-1850s for Europeans. Otherwise there is no way you have bayonets and hussars in age 2. For Aztecs it was kinda “frozen” in 1500s and Japanese in the Sengoku Jidai etc. Some skins changes from upgrades are based on historical progression for more flavor (but the age 2 musketeer with a thirty years war should not have bayonets. I’d prefer it is changed to a spear like ashigaru). But many do not.
Actually I tried fictioning a more historically accurate techtree for an early modern game or even the full history because of my Chunibyo. What I found is that the greater the time span is, the more difficult it becomes to place the units and appearances. If it’s set narrowly in the Napoleonic Era (like NTW) the uniforms are easy to design. When it is more than that, you’ll need to sacrifice either the variety of units available at the same time, or the overall accuracy.
But again, this is a side comment. British redcoats should get a more modern look with shako (or even pith helmet?) in the late game, and this one change is not a difficult one.
Back to the topic, I think one other thing that could be done, is to give scenario-specific skins based on the setting.
For example in the Fire or Indian campaign you’ll have british musketeers with cavalier hats (thirty years war uniform) if the AI does not upgrade them. I think one can make a trigger to change them to tricornes or shakos from the very beginning in those scenarios, respectively, regardless of the tech level.
Campaigns are never balanced so it wouldn’t be a problem if their stats are different from the skirmish.
Because skirmish games are quite abstract and could represent a long time span where civs are not necessarily synchronized, but campaigns have a very specific setting.
That was done in AOE4. Most civs in skirmish are rather fixed in high-late middle ages, even the “vanguard maa” in age 1 that intuitively should be an Anglo-Saxon one has high medieval helmet and shield. But you also have era-specific assets like dane axe and great helms from earlier eras in the campaigns (though they are treated as different units).
Absolutely. The current reskin is awesome and I thank the Devs for that work, though it’s jarring that the original British Redcoats with their generic Industrial Age upgrade look 100% more appropriate.
As you’ve said, bring back that Shako! Pith Helmet could be an Imperial Age aesthetic ###### but I can take it or leave it - just want the Napoleonic-Victorian Stovepipe Shako hat back on their heads.