I know someone care about Winrate , but its meaningless

So , everyone happy with AOE4 different Civ different build and strategy , not like aoe2 everyone go 20 pop scout and 21 maa into archer or drush

But at the same time
They care winrate , and tell someone low winrate = too weak ,

this is right and wrong

Lets me talk about this ,
if you only look winrate,
this game no way be a balance game.
You want balance is just a dream.
Because you dont understand how it works

Now Chinese low winrate, right ?
but if Devs not nerf Siege , let Chinese playable , maybe give some buffs too , chinese up to 50% winrate ,
Chinese main so happy they will get 50% winrate

then the problem right now is ,
They so good at late game and â– â– â– â–  in early game
Because winrate is telling you ,
70% boom map + 30 % open map
Chinese still get 50% winrate
And we cant say this is balance

how to nerf Chinese to not boom so good and give them options to play open map.
This is what balance should do

because their lowest winrate is open map and maybe water early game or some hybrid map ,
they are weak in those
But every Chinese main just care the siege nerf ,
if they not nerf chinese siege , winrate just like , 80% boom map , 30% open map/hybrid map , you think this is balance ?

Yes , you get 45%-50% winrate , very balance game i love it !

Really ?

For example , English Farms,
If you pick English play water map , what farms buff give you ? Nothing

Chinese in open map , You want to rush ? or go Song and boom ?
Boom in open map ? Available?
If you dont have any options to rush/ boom in Open map or water map ,
then how come you have good winrate ?
And chinese design is just like that
If you go Song and push , some civs already castle age , they just have better combo then your Song Rush , even you FC , you still dont have any powerful strategy as Mongols or Rus

Can you play Hybrid Map like Rus , Delhi or maybe just rush like Mongols ?
No , you cant

Few Civs they cant play Hybrid Map
and heres 7-8 Hybrid Maps in map pool
thats why their winrate so low

in top level ( tournament )
Tournament Rule , you only can pick civ 1 time
you wont and you cant pick Chinese in every single tournament game
You cant pick 1 civ twice in bo3 bo5
Maybe you lose then you can , whatever,

But if there a map , Chinese has 80% winrate , you will pick chinese instantly
Thats call broken game right ?
No one care what map you weak
So i am not saying dont care winrate, you should also care more about options , what you can do in every map
Not only siege

so chinese problem is about they have so many map they just so bad
If buff chinese early game , will they snowball be unable to stop in late game
Because they supposed to be weak early game , strong late game

You want to balance the game only Arabia ? Want them all can fight on water ? What you want ?

Only care winrate , this game never balance
Because English ship can not farm on water and get the bonus
and Khan cant swim , even Mongols really good with tower rush

Why only care winrate
If map pool change , even no balance patch
Give chinese more big map to boom , chinese can easy get good winrate
Now delhi just like this , every map playable , and too strong hybrid map , thats why their winrate so good
Every civs should be like this


I saw some people raise instantly that Chinese winrate drop a lot after patch 11009, but obviously because most people are over reliance on OP units those they just want to spam those units to counter everything.
At least some days passed in case the winrate is still the same situation, we may start to consider how to adjust game balance.


Win rate matters… At least that’s how players play the game.

1 Like

This is really funny. In some maps, only certain civilizations can be used to improve the winning rate. This is not a problem that a good RTS game should have. A good game should be able to play well on all maps without too much difference.


Yep, that is why I called Chinese maladjusted but not weak.
What I prefer to see is that all siege are supposed to get nerf further, and Chinese should be buff in early game to make this civ more adaptive on opened map.
By the way, England seems need buff as well but I have no idea to acquire it applicably.

You know what?
If you play Chinese a lot you would find out throughout the whole gameplay that your opponent(except Chinese Civ) always could deal great pressure on you especially in early games and 1v1.

Like ENG got longbow, French knight/hulk ship, Rus early knight, Delhi sanctuary, Abbasid ram rush. Not to mention Mongol got X2 production at price of one. HRE MAA also could be a problem but HRE is weak now.

Meanwhile what Chinese got in age 2? Almost nothing, and plz don’t mention that Zhuge nu trash. It become totally useless since horseman buff.

You know what, I don’t feel joy thought the game when I use Chinese. So I am turning to Mongol.
Game would be very balanced if everyone chose Mongol.

It’s no use mate. All they hear is " Hurr Durr Siege was good, give china back siege, we want bombard spam back hurrrr"


And plz tell which map that chinese got highest winrate?




Yep, go create it and makes dev to see , and ENG as well

I would agree with you on this, but this is very different case. I predicted these results weeks / months ago by saying something along these lines “If they nerf siege globally it will hurt china most and makes them a lot weaker and if they do targetted nerf alongside with global nerf then civ is unviable and trash”

Chinas ONLY strength was siege weaponry and late game. Now it has shifted towards grenadiers and heavy walling which goes for a lot later than imp bombard set up and is way harder to pull off.

This fact been known for months everybody who plays at high elo and many other players at lower elo.

Chinese winrate may fluctuate little bit higher or lower but they’re by far the worst civ in game as of rn and that won’t change. There is nothing to discover anymore especially when all their tech is to improve siege and use of clockwork tower. All of this was thrown away so they cannot compete with other civs

1 Like

You are literally strawmanning. I’ve read most threads on the new patch now, and no one is saying that we should bring the Chinese bombards back. All they are saying is that they want compensatory early-mid game buffs for the Chinese.

1 Like

It’s been Noted that there was a hidden Imperial officer production speed nerf, that’s why high Elo dropped, imo. But over all agree with what you’re saying

Everyone claims to have the answers… but at the end of the day “the answer” has to be internally tested then fledged out live on the servers…

Yall ain’t no software developers heck yall probably don’t even know how to do simple Javascript or C++… bc if you were given a huuuuge assignment and you would have experienced the fact that your first 50 compilations DID NOT GET IT RIGHT…keep testing and tweaking

We’ll eventually get something right that’s supported by thousands of data points. They already know THIS AIN’T IT.

1 Like

Thanks to the weakening of the fishing economy and the strengthening of Delhi. And Trebuchet has a huge advantage over baochuan. Let’s choose a mix map, such as the Confluence. Chinese win rate has dropped by almost ten percentage points.
Also, if win rate doesn’t tell the story, what about pick rate?

If you care about map winrate, why aren’t Delhi and Mongolia nerfed.
I don’t understand this change after the FL fire damage 45–>55 patch. So I support nerfs, but what does relic do? They pretty much removed this unit and you won’t find any reason to choose it now.
The same goes for the Siege change, I support nerfs, but totally unacceptable without any buffs.

Guess what cupcake? WE ARE NOT BETA TESTERS, we bought the game and expect full experience. Getting eventually sth right is pathetic at this point.

1 Like

Reference the RTS that came out and was at this level 4 months after release?? I’ll wait sugar lips.

At this lvl? Maybe Warcraft Reforged XD

…we got jokes… (need more periods…)

The programmers aren’t responsible for making decisions about balance.