Anyway, I have to say — I really like this new civ. Great job, Devs!
But while reading the public info, I was like, “Wait… Jin Dynasty Zhanma Swordsmen?”
Uh, that feels a bit like seeing longbowmen in a French army during the Hundred Years’ War.
The Jin military absolutely should have terrifying units like the Iron Pagoda and Mohe Tribesman, which are spot-on. However, units like the Zhanma Swordsman and Bed Crossbow are actually far more characteristic of the Song Dynasty, not the Jin.
Of course, I won’t deny that after conquering half of the Song Dynasty, the Jin likely captured such weapons.
However, in practice, the Jin simply had no real need to widely equip Zhanma Swords.
This weapon was actually developed and extensively used by the Song precisely because they lacked cavalry — and thus had to rely on heavily armored infantry to counter enemy heavy cavalry. Given how scarce Song cavalry was, the Jin never faced enough mounted threats from them to justify mass-adopting Zhanma Swords themselves, even if they did capture some.
In short, heavy cavalry, horse archers (and perhaps gunpowder) — yes, that’s the true Jin style. But Zhanma Swordsmen and Bed Crossbows are quintessentially Song units, especially during the period when they were fighting against the Jin.
So if you assign all these new units exclusively to the Jin, it becomes a bit historically odd. It would mean that in the campaign, you’re playing as Yue Fei, battling an army that’s a hybrid of both typical Song and Jin military styles — while Yue Fei’s own forces end up with no distinctive units of their own.
I’m not suggesting that certain new units should be removed from the Jin tech tree. Rather, I’m saying we should probably give the original Chinese civ some new units as well.
Yes, this might introduce balance challenges — but right now, vanilla China has long since devolved into a boring playstyle centered around spaming general common units. To add freshness and excitement, taking on this challenging design choice would absolutely be worth it.
I don’t know if the devs have actually already done this but simply haven’t made the details public — after all, when promoting a new DLC, there’s really no need to highlight changes made to older civs.
But regardless, I think it’s still worth raising this point now.
Let me recommend a very talented artist to you. His Pixiv account is: 防弾乳牛's illustrations/manga - pixiv , where you can find a wealth of historically reconstructed illustrations of ancient Chinese military equipment.
This one represents the Song Dynasty style more.
And this one represents the Jin Dynasty style more.
I know they may seem similar at first glance, but their combat styles are actually quite different. Due to a shortage of horses, the Song Dynasty focused on heavy infantry and crossbowmen, whereas the Jin Dynasty invested heavily in cavalry development.
——————————————————
So, if it were up to me to design it, I would also add the following new units to the original Chinese.
1. Shenbi Bowman
Since the Jin dynasty’s distinct style has already been highlighted, there’s no reason to overlook one of the Song dynasty’s iconic weapons from the same era: the Shenbi Bow. Despite its name “Bow”, it was actually a powerful crossbow.
I’ve also discussed this uniquely Chinese-style crossbow in detail in another post. Compared to European crossbows, it featured much wider and a trigger positioned toward the rear rather than the center. This design allowed it to shoot arrows of the same length used by bows, unlike European crossbows that required short, thick bolts.
And let me emphasize once again: Chinese infantry crossbows, including the Shenbi Bow, hardly ever used Cranequins or Windlasses for reloading. Therefore, the common crossbowman reloading animation is entirely inappropriate for Chinese units.
“Shenbi” meaning “Divine Arm”, became legendary for its exceptional power and was a signature weapon of the Song dynasty. Historical records recount that during the 1134 Battle of Xianren Pass, 30,000 Song soldiers — taking advantage of the mountainous terrain — used coordinated volleys of Shenbi crossbows to repel a 100,000-strong Jin army led by Wuzhu, including their elite Iron Pagoda. The weapon also played a decisive role in other major engagements such as the battles of Heshangyuan and Xiangyang, delivering impressive results against Jin forces. Decades later, during the prolonged wars against the Mongols, the Shenbi crossbow continued to shine — so much so that a fortress was even named “Shenbi Castle” in its honor. Its fearsome reputation endured for centuries; Ming dynasty scholars a hundred years later attempted to reconstruct it, though those efforts were eventually abandoned as gunpowder-based firearms rapidly advanced and rendered it obsolete.
If you aim to authentically portray the Song-Jin conflicts, this weapon is virtually impossible to ignore — especially given how historically inaccurate the common crossbowmens’ weapon are. So why not seize the opportunity presented by the upcoming Yue Fei DLC for the Song dynasty to finally give it the representation it deserves?
——————
2.Zhanma Swordsman
Of course — this was precisely one of the core units Yue Fei employed to counter the Jin dynasty’s Iron Pagoda. During the 1140 Battle of Yancheng, Yue Fei ordered his elite troops, armed with Zhanma Swords and large axes, to flank and charge into the Jin heavy cavalry formation that had already been slowed down by frontal resistance. He instructed his soldiers: “Don’t look up — just keep hacking at the horses’ legs.” Through this fearless, close-quarters melee, they achieved a stunning victory, making it a classic historical example of infantry successfully defeating heavily armored cavalry. This weapon also performed brilliantly in the same year’s Battle of Shunchang.
Indeed, how could you possibly call it Yue Fei’s army without the Zhanma Swordsmen? Omitting them would be as absurd as depicting the Black Prince Edward’s forces without longbowmen — while somehow having those longbowmen appear in King Philip’s French army instead!
——————
3.Bed Crossbow
Historical accounts of this weapon date back even earlier. As far back as 1004, during the war between the Song dynasty and the Khitan, both sides fielded massive armies but became deadlocked at Chanzhou. It was precisely this weapon that the Song forces used to devastating effect — firing a huge arrow from a distance of 600 to 800 meters that pierced straight through the skull of the Khitan commander. This single shot dealt a severe blow to Khitan morale and ultimately helped push both sides toward signing the treaty.
The weapon continued to see extensive use in later conflicts against the Jin dynasty and the Mongols. Historical sources claim its maximum range could exceed one kilometer. The Mongols were so impressed by its power that they specifically recruited Song soilders skilled in operating these giant Bed Crossbows, forming specialized units modeled after them to assist in their campaigns across Central and West Asia.
——————
Extra:
Moreover, if I may add a note: I’ve noticed that the Jin dynasty’s MAA units are equipped with European-style bastard swords. Historically, Chinese swords never featured such long straight crossguards or prominent pommels. You might consider replacing them with sabers which Mongol’s MAA equiting — or simply using the same swords used by the Imperial Guards.
——————————————————
I’ve also heard rumors previously about plans to revise the Zhu Xi’s Legacy. However, in my personal opinion, Zhu Xi’s Legacy is already a very distinctive and interesting civ. Units like the ZhugeNu and Palace Guards are widely usable. Aside from the fact that the crossbowmen still aren’t historically accurate (so I’d also suggest giving Shenbi Bowman and Bed Crossbow to Zhu Xi’s Legacy), it’s already a compelling civ as it stands.
The problem lies with the vanilla Chinese civ. Likely due to its strong early-game economy, this civ can rely solely on common units and still overpower most other civs simply through sheer army size. However, the downside is obvious: it has almost lost its distinctiveness. Units like the ZhugeNu and Palace Guards see drastically reduced usage, and players mostly spamed common Spearmen, Lancers, and Crossbowmen instead. By the Castle Age, unique units are virtually nowhere to be seen — making the civ really boring.
If the new unique Shenbi Bowman, Zhanma Swordsman, and Bed Crossbow could all be added to Chinese’s tech tree, I believe this civ would become significantly more engaging. I understand this might let balance issues, landmarks like the Spirit Way might also need further adjustments, but I believe it would be worth it. A civ that relies solely on Pro Scouting and massing common, non-unique units in the Castle Age to execute an unsustainable attacking is neither fun nor thematically fitting for “Yue Fei.” In pursuit of fresh and distinctive gameplay, even further nerfing China’s economic would be a worthwhile trade-off.
I can already foresee that this DLC will provoke dissatisfaction among some players who are passionate about Chinese history. And the reason is precisely that they feel the Devs have given all the new unique units to the new Jin Dynasty civ, even though half of these new units are stylistically typical of the Song Dynasty. Meanwhile, the original Chinese civ — supposedly represented by its iconic hero Yue Fei — gets nothing at all. This is inevitably strange and deeply frustrating.
I don’t know whether the Devs have already planned to allocate some of these new units to the original Chinese civ as well. If they have, that would be great, and further official announcements could help clear up players’ misunderstandings.
In any case, thank you to the Devs for your remarkable work, and I’m look forward to your future achievements.
