I loved Nile Delta + my thoughts on map dodging

So Nile Delta was just in the map pool. A map I’ve wanted to play against real people of similar elo for a while. It was epic and I loved the games that I got to play. Comment below if you also liked the map and want some games even when it’s out of the rotation.

First I want to say in my opinion how good it is that we get a rotating map pool, so that we can try out different maps.

Second I want to share my experience of wanting to play a specific map and dealing with not getting that particular map. Since previously I’m not really that bothered, but in this case I know it’s going away quickly and likely won’t be back for some time if at all. Really was a time pressure here.

Some Stats
56 team random map games ‘started’
of which
7 Nile Delta games ‘started’
of which
3 Nile Delta games ‘player afk or drops’ - game ends @~5mins.

I can’t remember how many games were dropped before entering the actual game. My guess is about 4/5, and a few drops of other maps too.

So obviously a 12.5% map rate isn’t that high but honestly given it’s probably not a popular map it’s expected. Actual games played 7%, statistically still not too bad if I’m honest.

Feeling wise though I definitely felt the ‘argh I just want to play the map and I don’t have forever’ a fair bit. So in that respect I have some more sympathy for the ‘one map only’ crowd. However I also feel that most of my feelings of frustration come from
a) feeling I only have this one rotation to play
b) playing maps for other people only to be dropped for the map I want.

So while I have definitely had more first hand experience of the frustration when wanting to play a specific map, and gained some sympathy for those that only want to play one map with limited time. I even had some chats with people who said they didn’t like the map, and I thanked them for playing it. I played a lot of maps I didn’t want to play this rotation, and I would be happy to do so in future. Especially if the map I wanted to play was always in the rotation. But sadly I have lost a lot of sympathy for those among that group who dodge maps, especially when their maps are in the map pool >90% of the time.

I should finish by saying a big thank you to everyone who played Nile Delta even if it wasn’t their preferred map, I look forward to playing your maps with you in future.


Why are we forced to play a niche map on the actual rank ladder.

Ladder should be limited to:
Arabia, Arena, and another 2 maps that will be refreshed weekly.

Player/team should get 2 bans, regardless the size of the stack.

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Because adapting to unusual situations is part of the skill in the game, if it was always the same two maps, the game would be far to formulaic

If you want to just play those 2 maps then create a lobby where you only play those…


Arena isn’t a niche map for clowns? I like Nile Delta, it’s different from the formulaic gameplay you see in Arabia and Arabia-like maps or other horrible maps like BF. The reason people don’t like it is because they can’t adapt to different situations and can’t handle not performing well. It takes 2-3 games to figure out “Gee maybe building a TC where I spawn isn’t the best idea”


“The game” doesnt have to include the ladder aspect of it, the ranking system ever since the begining of the game was mostly based on Arabia, why would you want to change something that actually worked so well.

I’m all for exotic maps, but that’s not the vanilla skill indicator the ladder needs.
If you want to play Nile, do it, why do you also seek to get Elo for it?

You keep changing your tune. At times you support ranked lobbies, and then you now say elo shouldn’t be given for these kinds of maps, and then you hate a lot of the Arabia variants, but say it’s the only map people should play in ranked. Stop trying to control the game for everyone in a way very few people will actually enjoy.


Blindly following the so called vanilla skills make the game stale and meta, no matter how good the single map (arabia) is. New and niche maps bring the true strategical nature of the game.

I honestly dont think Arabia build order simulator is that strategic.

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Which is ironic, because AllergicTable49 also complains about how stale and bad the meta is.


Arabia kept the game alive for 20 years, it was the perfect enviorment for a competitive scene to flourish on.
Obviously more maps = more strategy. But it also increase the chaos, too much options leads to unbearable degree of adaptation, I remind you that Chess is being play on a single “map”, same goes for Football and any other sport, including DOTA/ LoL etc…

We need stability, ironically the current state of Arabia is the least stable, and therefore the awful “stale” meta we got.

I dont mind the option of 2 queues, one for a vanilla random-civ Arabia, and the other for all the diverse options we have. Win win.
This would also solve the civ-abuse syndrome we got.

And we still have arabia + arena in queue, its not like we get complete new maps every day.

For your example, the map of LOL and dota does not change but their hero stat changes every while. For chess isnt the number of openings already pretty stale?

I am fine with the current pace of map rotation. I didnt study nile delta yet, but for TG team moat requires extensive strategy on how to attack / transport around the moat, and my team is actually enjoying that.

Isnt it more boring if the game is always Arabia or Arena or black forest?

I wouldn’t quite equate you wanting to play a specific map with the arabia/arena only crowd. It is somewhat similar, but in your case you want to play a specific map that is never in the map pool, whereas the second group only wants to play a map that is literally always in the rotation and always will be.

In other words, the concern that arabia only people dont get to play arabia is significantly less than the concern that people don’t get to play more niche maps that are rarely in the map pool; because the first concern is much easier to resolve

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The current system is in place to try and please ALL of the communities that survived and thrived before DE. Arena, Nomad, BF, all those maps had people playing ranked lobbies on voobly with good communities. Not only Arabia. Hence why they are always in the map pool. With a match making system on a smallish community you can’t have everyone getting exactly what they want 100% of the time. Obviously you’re not happy, but you aren’t the only one they are trying to please.

I don’t care about the elo, I care about the matchmaking. It puts people of similar elo together, and it’s quick and easy. I’m not advocating for Nile Delta to be in the map pool 100% but I was pleased to get to play it.

Yes I agree, the situation was different. but it is the first time I have actually really wanted to get a specific map. So I feel like I learnt a bit more what it’s like from Allergic’s perspective.

I know right.

Anyway I’m doing a new experiment in that I’m going to Favourite Arabia and see how many games I actually get on Arabia. So far it’s 5/9 matches on Arabia, so >50% of the time, seems quite good so far.

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Update in case anyone interested:

28 Team Random Map games ‘started’
of which
11 Arabia Games ‘started’
of which
0 Arabia Games ‘player afk/drops’

For a total of 39% play rate on the preferred map this month. This is across 2v2 3v3 4v4. I’d still say that’s pretty good but less than I was expecting.

Some thoughts:

Obviously I played less this month 28 total games compared to 56 total games previously, life commitments aside I think that does come down to the fact that I actually got to play the map a fair bit. I played 56 ND games just to get 4 actual games, and I really wanted to play that map.

39% is still pretty good imo considering this also factors in 4v4 games. getting my pick 50% of the time even in 2v2s is far greater than ‘prefect balance’ assuming everyone favourites different maps. But I was expecting it to be higher, I think that’s down to people always spouting ideas that 60-90% of players want to play only Arabia (depending on who you ask). Maybe it’s not 60-90% players want arabia only, I don’t know how you get those stats, if it’s based on % maps actually played it doesn’t reflect in my personal stats.

Anyway I was thinking maybe trying to favourite arena or nomad this rotation and see what happens there.

The problem is not that no one wants to play Nile Delta, the problem is that you don’t get the chance to match with these people because it matches you with the first person within range and overlap so they will just dodge because they did not get enough bans.

You should be asking for an opt-in/max bans system, yes queue times would be slower for nile delta but you will get faster into an actual nile delta game if you are directly matched with likeminded people.

Are you still posting your bad idea in every possible thread? Your idea is already disproved in many other thread by many different users. It make no sense to bring it up in this thread as well. For the disproval: look at the other threads. I won’t wanna start the same discussion again here.

It’s not my idea and it happens to be the most popular alternative. Haven’t seen anyone disprove it. It’s purely logical. Don’t say A without B. You know how to link posts.

I do remember in that topic making this reply to your out of touch arguments lol.

But I’m really not interested in talking to you because I lose every time since it makes me more stupid.


Loool look how disingenuous you are. You always tell people who want control over maps to go to the lobby:

Your real opinion on the lobby:


@PacificWheel208 nice ad homien since every opinion should count and you cant just discard one since you two are disagreeing we do to but rather then block opinion or ideas it should be a goal to think about it and listen to it

You dont agree with the disproved arguments. In many thread it looks like you vs all other players. You are really one of the few believers in the opt-in system. There arent many who want it. And every time you post it, you get lots of replies of users dont like it for every different reasons. That just shows me it isnt a good solution. There is no reason to kipnap multiple threads with your suggestion. Just make your own thread and stick to that thread only with your suggestion.

What is your issue? Personally i dont like the lobby. For a game released before 2000 it made sense and it was probably state of the art. Nowadays it is pretty much outdated and almost every respected game uses some kind of match making. It is the superior way of getting into games. So i am pro match making. It just makes more sense to me.

Match making do have some drawbacks. If people put really high weights on these drawbacks, then the lobby might better suited for your needs. Not stated in your second quote (but you can found this statement in another quote in the past of me), but the lobby is also the place for people who want much more control about their maps, because they just like one map only or wanna play a niche. So if that is your cup of tea, then the lobby might better suit your needs. So if you are one of these players, then it make sense to have a look at the lobby. I am not such player, so the lobby make no sense to me. I also think new players should start with the basic, most common way to play the game. As result new players should start to use ranked in my opinion.

Not sure how this all is a contradiction in your opinion…