Not exactly sure how good player you’re but ill assume you’re average. When you scout against mongols which you mentioned below.
Scout for barracks. Get 200g for age up then get to feudal as soon as possible while getting 150 wood. If you feel you need more wood to protect something then get outpost up. 2 archers are enough to force all villagers back and more mongol commits, more they invest to it.
I think overall best solution would be not giving 100% resources back on outposts if cancelled. This means even if TR begins player cant freely cancel it out and move somewhere else once defender has done tower.
Essentially one strategy that I build tower like 95% rdy and finish it if someone tries to tower rush or if someone cancels tower I just keep mine unfinished so I get resources back. Mongols are exception
there is obviously a problem with Tower rushes when people are leaving the game because of it and even pros are complaining. Relic wants aggressive play, aggressive play is worth nothing if the defender loses 100% of the time. there is no fun for 1 party. the better play is: if you are able to tower rush THEN the defender can also punish you for it without losing the game for themselves. it should not require you running to a new age. each age should have aggression and ability to defend against it.
Hyperbole. Again the major tower rush factions are Mongol, China and sometimes English. Mongol is just a very strong civ and always top or near top of the win rates; China in the other hand is the lowest win rate??? PPl have nooooooooo problems doing mongol tower rush to success? why is china so low if its 100% win with TR?
Why did you leave elaborating on your points to come attack me? What I stated was based on data. TR are EZ to implement right? Case and point Mongols can be trusted to tower rush MOST of the time if not all the time, yes? So why would it be so hard to replicate tower rushing with China, a very good tower rush civ? And ASSUMING it’s ez enough to do and STRONGGG… why is China lowest win rate across all rankings?? EVEN when you look at the win rates over time China has a 5-9min high win rate (possible due to bbq/tr gg-go-next), but after the 5-9min window china win rates goes to hell!!!
TR is not fun FOR YOU! And ppl that think like you.
It seems that a lot of people think like him. If you put up a poll asking if towers are a bit overpowered you’d be surprised by how many people feel that way. Perhaps YOU ARE the MINORITY OPINION in this MATTER.
And yet this “poll” you and other like you reference is YET to be shared on any of the threads?? Wait there was a poll on reddit that had like 125 votes… 125 votes is supposed to be indicative of 30k player base?? interesting…
I don’t recall referencing any poll in particular. Feel free to re-read my post as many times as needed to get the proper context. All I’m saying is that you’re making assumptions that you’re speaking of a majority of people. I’ve seen plenty of pro players complain about the strength of towers and I’ve seen plenty of casuals complain about it too.
I’m not sure if you’ve looked at any metrics lately but that 30k player base is dwindling daily. Advocating for the status quo may not be the best idea. Even the upcoming patch will have tower nerfs in it.
In this post there is couple of “polls” that try to convenient what you’re saying. Firstly when polls are made they need to be completely random ppl who answer to them, not ppl who are picking the poll up because they’re reading the topic and are against or support it. What I mean the poll needs to happen in way that its not trying to make the poll look more favorable than it is so example would be sending a similar poll to 1k players that are completely randomly picked.
Next problem with polls like this is the fact that the sample size is so small that its easier to influence the outcome of poll. Ask 10 friends to vote the way you want and suddenly it looks a lot more favorable to other direction.
Now I do agree that towers need tweaking which was on pup, but many of the suggestions and thoughts from players is to remove the strategy completely or over nerf it which is not balance at all.
Lastly vast majority of players on here (probably 99.99%) shouldn’t consider themselves with balance. What ever TR is strong or not they most certainly lose to it because they do mistakes or do not react properly.
So lets take situation: X player is playing and doing his too slow scouting against mongol and finds out about the TR after 1st or 2nd tower is already up.
This is completely players own fault. TR has massive snowball effect. If you fail to stop it or slow it down early on it can snowball so hard that they just lose.
Another example would be: Player scouts tower rush and changes the gameplan but doesn’t consider how hard opponent is going for towers and gets baited to pull over reaction and losses games.
I’ve said this on other posts but I’ll say it here too:
Tower rush is strong, but it’s main strength comes from HOW it attacks people, not the numbers towers have or the speed of it’s implementation.
It abuses a players lack of knowledge. If you saw the villager leaving the base you could 100% react in a way that absolutely mitigates it’s impact. But because people generally see it as it’s being built, your response then needs to be VERY fast and you need to know EXACTLY what to do in response givin your current state.
Tower rushes only get good value when you delay a resource for a significant amount of time, get some villagers killed, or the arguably most important part of a TR…tilt the defending player
otherwise they are a nuisances at best.
TLDR: Tower rushes attack people’s mental by abusing their inability to multitask effectively. They are a good way to force a reaction out of your opponent, and occasionally just win when an improper reaction is given.
Exactly. And if you tilt over opponents aggression then player will tilt regardless when it comes to your way because this purely indicates the fact that player has its own little game plan that doesn’t include XYZERT thing happening but D thing which he is preparing for.
Doesn’t really make sense. This is not any different from using any other unit or strategy in game. If your multitasking is better and you understand how to stretch your opponent to make mistakes and lose the game.
Sure TR hits faster than most things but I see ppl getting tilted and overreacting to 2 scouts attacking villagers on gold. Seen few instances when player responds with tower to it which isn’t necessary
I can’t believe how far you go with defending tower rushing, to the point where you are comparing two scouts harassing some villagers with tower rushing your opponent down that removes the opportunity to gather the resources close to the base close to impossible which leaves the opponent with little options to proceed which leads to surrender.
Say it how it is you are doing this because it works and you love it, but dont come here try to defend this tactic as it’s a healthy tactic for the game because it is not and it’s only damaging the game if left untouched.
I’m all for keeping as many strategies open for anyone to use and we have to be careful what we want changed but tower rush can completely shut down an opponent within minutes from starting the game and that isn’t fun in any way only for the people who uses this pathetic tactic for a quick win thinks it’s great.
And that’s my point. If you take a step back, a TR is essentially an early game raid, but the difference is it’s not something answered with units.
Theoretically I could go spearmen and burn it down, but it isn’t very efficient, and people seem to have a huge issue with the “lack of an answer” even tjouhh there absolutely are answers. The answers just are not attacking it and removing the threat.
And so it attacks people’s mental stability. When someone sees a tower that they can’t simply attack to remove, has pushed them off a resource, and will stay there for a good while, they tilt and this causes them to repsond incorrectly.
I get that it can be frustrating, and sure, they should nerf it in some SMALL way. But Relic doesn’t need to give it the China treatment and slap with 4 nerfs at the same time.
You can’t tell that something is not fun and for so remove from the game.
This is supposed to be an strategy game, tower rushing is another strategy, valid as any other one.
Only is a problem when:
You didn’t scout well
You didn’t prevent it
You are not prepared to counter it
Chinese put the barbican or a tower in your gold? You have another gold near, just put a tower on it and place your villagers there, they would be not able to build a tower under the range of yours.
Or get 125 gold and research rams. You only need food and wood then to destroy the towers and make an army.
But man, you can’t complain over certain strategies just because you don’t know how to face it.
Also don’t think than your enemy can be spending tons of resources on tower rushing and army while you are just booming. That’s a thing I’ve seen a lot of times. Last day I tower rushed as mongol an HRE, and instead of get an army he was just trying desperately to get into castle age. He got into castle and 2 minutes after he was dead.
But guess what, he passes to castle with Reignitz (Reignitz while being rushed, lmao), when the other landmark would have probably saved him. And that’s in platinum and diamond ranks…
i do not like sc2/dota/lol/sc1.6, so what?
I play aoe4, it’s a game and TR is strategy.
More correct will be:
you play football. and you do not like:
penalty
the player is faking an injury
and you would not believe me (cause you do not live football) but rules in football CHANGED cause someone DO NOT LIKE.
ppl complain about TR because it’s NOT FUN (for them).
There are scenarios: micro scenario/ CBA /DM.
if people love these → they play it separately.
For me TR is scenario: if it failed the Tower Rusher just resign and start his “amazing(no)” gameplay again, against another player.
sc2 still have problem with “photon cannon rush”.
Noob learnt the strategy and execute it in bronze… he win 99% of bronze but never go to the silver.
aoe2 has same problem before.
people picked tuuutons, and went building towers → failed, no big deal, start again.
the guy could TR even 2k ELO, but the real elo (without TR was 1400)
wrong map → altf4 → search arabia.
i mean how blind do you need to not notice the problem within every RTS
Sure anyone can learn anything but in this case it really comes down to that me personally don’t think it’s fun to play against TR because there is no enjoyment coming out of it just frustration.
I think TR is a pathetic and lame attempt to crush your opponent within minute’s of the game starting and for me I just don’t enjoy that kind of boring fast rush game play that is really annoying to deal with at times.
Does it work really well? Yes! Is it fun? No! I want good games and TR is just boring and annoying. No joy comes out of it and I know I’m not alone feeling this way. And let’s not forget that certain civilizations have more issues dealing with TR than others so that’s also something to remember.
While I can sympathize with your frustration, and I do think there should be some changes to TR. But I don’t think ganes should be balanced based around people’s, even if its the majority, feelings
I have stated that multiple times that TR needs tweaking, but im not going to support something that removes strategy from the game like BS to unlock it. It also affects early defense not just TR. As long as there is good post about how to tweak TR without affecting defense any form (question is are towers too strong defensively) then sure.
We’ve already seen few different strategies being removed from the game due over nerfs or simply making it impossible to do which is bad design and leads more and more one dimensional play which this game has been heading towards more and more. There is no more available strategies overall but less.
I don’t do TR. In like 550
games I have done BBQ / TR rush 2 times. One was when my ally trolled and acted like was AFK and one was when one of my opponents left at start of game so I wanted to try force last opponent to quit but it wasn’t as fast as I wanted it to be.
I have never been completely shut down other than one very specific strategy which I still yet to find way to deal which is exclusive for TG’s only and won’t be something that can be done in 1v1. If you get completely shut down in first minutes by TR then issue is at your end not the strategy itself while its very strong strategy and once again need bit of tweaking to become more balanced.
Go to feudal and get archery range and deny any new towers coming up. So how is that not unit based answer? Also many suggestions on these forums are only to butcher certain strategies just like this topic. Putting outposts behind blacksmith is essentially just removing TR from the game and taking away yet another strategy.