I REALLY hope AOE4 gets a luducrius map size to make amazing Real world maps (not like aoe3...)

[Darkness01101]

Yeah, the largest map size in Tech Stress was fairly small. If released game is the same or about the same, much larger size options would be nice.

It’s Age of “Empires”… and building an empire in a relatively small plot of land doesn’t seem majestic enough to build an ‘empire’ in, or warrant the name ‘empire’.

I like to build sprawling empires, with multiple forward bases and sometimes a vast walled regime spanning several areas of the map.

AoE3 could also be called ‘Age of Backyards’, imo, and I don’t want AoE4 to go that route, yet it borderline does so

[OperaticShip743]

@IcarusDuCer

I was very dissapointed with the map scale in AOE3 (the maps on it are too small)

The maps in AOE-3 are usually not very big because it is incompatible with the style of play. However I would like to be able to create huge map games in casual games, or make huge maps in the editor.

[WindHighland]

Nah. Ludicrous feels ludicrous. You can put all the technical-scientific explanation into it, but it won’t feel biiiiiiig!

[Skadidesu]

@Darkness01101

It’s Age of “Empires”… and building an empire in a relatively small plot of land doesn’t seem majestic enough to build an ‘empire’ in, or warrant the name ‘empire’.

Age of Empires 1 and Age of Empires 2 never had large maps and a population limit of 200 until the HD/DE versions.
You could never build an Empire in those games. AoE1 was designed for a population limit of 50 and AoE2 for 75.

@Darkness01101

AoE3 could also be called ‘Age of Backyards’, imo, and I don’t want AoE4 to go that route, yet it borderline does so

AoE3 had larger maps than AoE2 when it came out.
The same player number in AoE3 compared to AoE2 has about the same map size on default but with the editor (or custom random maps) you can have much larger maps in AoE3.
Only Ludicrous maps that were added to AoE2 long after AoE3 was released are larger then AoE3 max size but not by much. The second largest AoE2 map is a lot smaller. 1/4 of the size.

@OperaticShip743

The maps in AOE-3 are usually not very big because it is incompatible with the style of play. However I would like to be able to create huge map games in casual games, or make huge maps in the editor.

But you can. The Definitive Edition added a large version of every map. Unlike TAD where only some maps had a large version.
Also you could always make a giant custom map even in vanilla AoE3. You could always make giant maps in the Editor.

@WindHighland

Nah. Ludicrous feels ludicrous. You can put all the technical-scientific explanation into it, but it won’t feel biiiiiiig!

What are you talking about?
Size isn’t something abstract it’s something very easily measurable.

If the units of measurement between two games aren’t compatible (like AoE2, AoE3 and AoE4 tiles) then speed is the best way to measure something.
I mean a horseman is a horseman and a second is a second.
How long it takes to get from one place of a map to a different one is pretty much what makes a map feel big.
The same map can feel different size depending on if you travel through it on foot, in a car or in a plane, for example in Battlefield or GTA.

[Darkness01101]

@Skadidesu

Age of Empires 1 and Age of Empires 2 never had large maps and a population limit of 200 until the HD/DE versions.
You could never build an Empire in those games. AoE1 was designed for a population limit of 50 and AoE2 for 75.

When they were first released, they felt like empires. ‘Theater of the mind’ was also more of a thing with older games.

Two decades time has a way of making big amazing games feel small or antiquated.

I have a feeling the Forgotten Empires mod around 2013 (well before HD and DE), which I had, had higher max pop count than 200?

Either way, an ‘empire’ in today’s terms is not the map size AoE3 launched with and had for 15 years.

@Skadidesu

AoE3 had larger maps than AoE2 when it came out.

I don’t believe this to be true. AoE3’s maps were tiny from the very start. And much smaller than what I had been playing in AoE2 a long while before AoE3 launched, imo. And if this isn’t the case, then I must have been using some map size mod for AoE2 because AoE3’s maps have always been miniscule in comparison for me

@Skadidesu

Only Ludicrous maps that were added to AoE2 long after AoE3 was released are larger then AoE3 max size but not by much. The second largest AoE2 map is a lot smaller. 1/4 of the size.

Not sure where you’re getting your info, or what suped-up AoE2 versions I’ve been playing forever, but this doesn’t match my experience at all. Seems like AoE2’s ‘Tiny’ map was comparable in size to AoE3’s largest map for years and years

[Skadidesu]

@Darkness01101

Either way, an ‘empire’ in today’s terms is not the map size AoE3 launched with and had for 15 years.

The problem lies in the today part.
Do you want AoE4 to be like AoE1/2/3 or do you want it to by like Total War or something?
Because games with larger scales like SimCity (1989) are older then AoE and games like the first Total War (2000) aren’t much newer.

AoE1/2 were limited to 200 population and most people payed that way so it become standard in AoE3. Other games like SC2 arrived at the same number.

I personally love playing with higher populations and you probably too but that’s not what the game is designed for and balance brakes apart so nothing you can do competitively.

@Darkness01101

I don’t believe this to be true. AoE3’s maps were tiny from the very start. And much smaller than what I had been playing in AoE2 a long while before AoE3 launched, imo. And if this isn’t the case, then I must have been using some map size mod for AoE2 because AoE3’s maps have always been miniscule in comparison for me

It seems like you usually played AoE2 with a higer then recommended map size. The Large map size was designed for 8 players and the Giant is even larger then that. So yes the game has larger maps when you play a 2v2 on a map that is designed for 4v4.

AoE3 didn’t let you choose the map size for random maps, it automatically scales them according to player numbers and not every map is the same size.
So in vanilla AoE3 if you only play random maps the maps are smaller when you choose the none recommended map sizes in AoE2.

But if you go to the Editor and set the map size to 1024x1024 in AoE3 (also AoM) then it’s much bigger then what Giant used to be.

Giant = 240x240 tiles
LudiKRIS = 480x480 tiles
It’s 4x the area.
AoE3 tile size is not the same as AoE2.
An AoE3 Town Centre is 5x5 tiles while and AoE2 Town Centre is 4x4 tiles while also looking bigger.
But you can’t just convert it 1 to 1 because things are scaled differently. Like AoE3 has bigger trees compared to AoE2 for example.

If you play AoE3DE now and select the Large Map size and play with more then just 1v1 then your maps is larger then the old Giant map in AoE2.
If you to the editor and make a 1024x1024 map then it’s nearly as large as LudiKRIS.

@Darkness01101

Seems like AoE2’s ‘Tiny’ map was comparable in size to AoE3’s largest map for years and years

wtf? have you actually ever played AoE2 on a tiny map and have you ever actually played AoE3 in 4v4, even without choosing a large map.
It’s orders of magnitude larger.

I think you are confused because AoE3 didn’t have a map size selection in the lobby so you assume it’s always as big as it is in a 1v1 while in reality it automatically scales with the player number.
The map size setting is also kinda hidden in the editor, you don’t generate a map of a certain size (the “Large” button does nothing as far as I know) but you instead increase the size by changing the map size setting after you generated it (which has the advantage that you can add to an existing map any time if you run out of space without having to completely remake it).

The bigger issue is that you can’t change the population limit without mods. Large maps just painful to play in Skirmish in my opinion.

[Darkness01101]

@Skadidesu

It seems like you usually played AoE2 with a higer then recommended map size.

Definitely. Played Giant in 2v2 unranked random games all the time. And 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 games on a pretty sizeable map, as well. As the player, I appreciate the freedom to choose what map size and max pop count to play rather than have a game or the devs tell me what they want me to play; within reason. Lock things off for ranked games, fine… but take the training wheels and artificial limits off for unranked games. I can make up my own mind how big of map I like to play and if 400 max pop is what I prefer to play. (Preference would be 500 pop for AoE4.)

@Skadidesu

AoE3 didn’t let you choose the map size for random maps, it automatically scales them according to player numbers and not every map is the same size.

I think I remember this, and it was another strike against AoE3 for me. When playing 2v2, 1v2, 1v3 games, the map size was tiny in AoE3 compared to what I was manually choosing and playing in AoE2.

@Skadidesu

But if you go to the Editor and set the map size to 1024x1024 in AoE3 (also AoM) then it’s much bigger then what Giant used to be.

That’s cool. I just know it never translated to games I personally played in AoE3. It should’ve been built into the basic experience, imo – instead of some modded map you had to download or build.

I know AoE3:DE has some huge map now, or so I’ve heard. Nice! Too late for me, though. I’m done playing AoE3 for a long time. I’m happy for other players it was finally done

@Skadidesu

wtf? have you actually ever played AoE2 on a tiny map and have you ever actually played AoE3 in 4v4, even without choosing a large map.

I think I meant Small or whatever the next size up is from Tiny. Even if it was Medium I meant, there were still at least Large and Giant above that in AoE2 making AoE3 maps I played feel like backyards you could run across in 5 seconds (exaggerating, I’m sure… but it took a lot longer to go across the map in my AoE2 games). So, AoE3 map size was always tiny for me in comparison.

I shouldn’t need to play 4v4 to unlock AoE3’s ‘large’ maps. AoE2 set the precedent by letting players choose the map size they wanted regardless of how many players were in the match. So, my experience is in relation to my unranked 2v2, 1v1, 1v2, and 1v3 games.

@Skadidesu

The bigger issue is that you can’t change the population limit without mods. Large maps just painful to play in Skirmish in my opinion.

Yeah, it’s a bigger issue, agreed. But this thread is about map size.

@Skadidesu

I personally love playing with higher populations and you probably too but that’s not what the game is designed for and balance brakes apart so nothing you can do competitively.

Yes, I do, too. But I don’t care about the competitive scene. I care about my gaming experience.

In playing AoE2 for years and years with Giant maps and 400 max population, I have no idea if balance broke or if it revealed some major and unfathonable design flaws. I enjoy it and it has always worked just fine for me. (Well, up until some relatively recent patch made my game slow to a horrendous crawl last time I tried AoE2:HD. But in AoE2:DE it’s fine.)

Some people just don’t care to seek out or use ‘meta’ or play 400 hours per month. I could care less if the Korean War Wagon has a fire rate of 2.5 or 2.3, or if a Paladin takes 30 seconds to train or 28.5 seconds. I’m not going to knowingly break the balance. And if I accidentally do, so be it. It’s not affecting anyone except me and friends I play with in unranked… and we really don’t care.

@Skadidesu

Do you want AoE4 to be like AoE1/2/3 or do you want it to by like Total War or something?

Please refrain from the nauseating Total War analogy. It’s in the same league as suggesting the use of the ‘tree cube’ mod means you want to play Tetris, Minecraft, or an Excel spreadsheet’s Chart Wizard and not AoE.

At no point in time while playing AoE2 on Giant maps did I ever feel like I was playing Total War. And with AoE2’s 400 max pop, I never thought to myself, “Gosh, this sure feels like Total War all the sudden. I think I’ll shut AoE off and go play Total War now.” I actually find TW boring and don’t like it’s style or gameplay

[Skadidesu]

I do definitely think that AoE4 needs a population limit setting.
I even made a thread about it before release [Poll] Population Limit

Some people modded to game to support a higher population limit already but the game gets unstable and even crashes sometimes when one player has to many units. So it’s not just an easy option they can just add at the moment.

AoE3 moved some of the choice from the lobby host to the map creator. Unlike AoE1/2/3 the isn’t a limited set of different map sizes but instead the hight and width of a map can be set independently with any number of tiles you want. The map size is scripted within the random map script.
Thanks to popular demand AoE3DE has added a large version of every map now. Maybe you should give that a try if that was your main problem with AoE3.

They will release mod tools and a scenario editor for AoE4 soon so we will be able to see how far we can push the game in size and unit numbers before it breaks.
I hope that we can have more flexible map sizes in the AoE4 editor and not just the fixed set like in AoE1/2.
I really hate it that there is no size between Giant and LudiKRIS in AoE2. Some scenarios just need more space then Giant but LudiKRIS is 4x as big and the performance is bad. They really need to add something inbetween. Give us the 1440p of maps please.