I remember Aussie Drongo making a video after AoE 4’s technical stress test where he talked about one of AoE 3’s pros definitely not switching over until they give him the option to customize hotkeys. Can’t remember which video.
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Apples. And. Oranges. Again, as I mentioned, other genres lets to learn WITHIN A SINGLE MATCH. In FPS and MOBA, if you die or get hit once or twice, you basically know what’s coming. RTS takes a relatively big time commitment to learn. How many vs. Goth match ups have you had before learning the Goth counter? How many times have you been trampled by Cataphracts before learning that spears bonus damage don’t matter to them? 4X games literally lets you study the game as you play.
You learn the toolset of new characters in just few minutes. Can you please quote the whole thing so I know that your reading comprehension is good enough?
Again, I am talking about learning the toolsets. The “jump off” is a high level maneuver. Not the point. I specifically mentioned new players.
It’s not. English is in AoE4.
Unless you have unique units that run completely contrary to counter system, which is a terrible design choice.
You keep going off topic there, bud.
anyone can assign buttons to the mouse, with any generic mouse
some games dont rely on those steps to make extra bottons usable in game. th egame detects those extra hotkeys.
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look 
I specifically mentioned casual player, not the type that actually learns the game. They most likely do not learn the game beyond the bare minimum necessary to carry on with the game. A good game design is 1) letting you learn the game during the match or 2) make things simple enough that you will retain it. A good RTS design means that the player should be able to 1) identify the problem and 2) have intuitive or even obvious counter to the problem WITHIN the match, no matter the skill level.
There is a reason why Goths overperform in lower ELOs. My example of Goth spam is an example of how the game itself undercuts its learning ability: a militia-line looking unit counters archers. Even if you do know the counter, it’s not easily executable for a casual player with below average APM or micro skills. Horses? Good luck, Goth spam applies to spears as well. Taking the Goth player our earlier? As if lower ELO casual would know the nuances of timing.
And that same unintuitiveness that more or less pervades the game leads to a poor new player experience. Hence one of the reasons why the franchise more or less stagnated.
So RTS is indeed the magic genre. More competitive games like MOBA can accommodate more uniqueness. More casual games like 4X can accommodate more uniqueness.
RTS just happens to fall perfectly into that subtle position where it’s both not casual enough and not competitive enough to accommodate more uniqueness.
That’s why it becomes stagnated.
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4X games literally lets you study the game as you play.
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Fun fact: most RTS have single player mode.
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I specifically mentioned casual player, not the type that actually learns the game.
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Idk which kind of casual player:
- Cares about wins so much that gets discouraged after losing to an unknown strategy once.
- Is willing to do anything other than spending 5min to read unit descriptions at the same time.
And THAT’s how you learned to counter Goth spam and Byzantine cataphracts? From AI? I don’t think so. The two civs don’t have unit counters. They have playstyle counters. AI cannot and will never mimic actual meta behavior of humans.
You cannot counter Goth spam just by reading 5 minutes lol. You need a requisite skill level (good enough micro skills and ability to multitask while microing) to actually counter it, because it can’t be countered just by pumping out a counter unit. The kinds of skillset a casual player would lack (just look at Goth winrates in low ELO).
Whereas Goth spam just needs you to rally and attack move your barracks units. There is a clear asymmetry in the unique mechanic counter. The spam? Easy. To counter? Hard. Again, see above for previous points regarding poor game design choices running against casual/new player experience.
rude
unless you cut off the part from contect.
it was smth like that:
easy to start, hard to master.
a few “easy examples” from other “not complex” games:
what counter zergling?
how to counter reapers?
how to counter invisibility in sc2?
how to counter riki? even with “toolset” people can not manage this task for years.
uniq units follow general line of counters:
- range countered by onagers
- melee by archers
- with a few exceptions… Same as any game. You need to read description at least once.
goth - low hp + high range armor == skirms counter unit.
Mongols(aoe4) - Cavery Archer - pikes counter unit.
is not it obvious?
toolset for AOE series:
- art of war
- learn base of the buildorder. no civ specific.
- learn base of counters - no civ specific.
- single player.
same as any “test” for heroes.
pick civ → single player → cheats → test whatever you like.
or it’s too complicated for you and it should be as “feature”. LOL
If that’s what you describe as “unintuitiveness” I’d say you are not wrong on describing “how to be good at multiplayer”.
Now the problem is, I wonder if AOE4 is an exception to this learning process, or if the devs are happy to have their game described as such. Does every “casual” player suddenly learns every single build order, timing, unit composition, and how to counter them immediately at the first glance in AOE4?
BTW, there is a very unintuitive unit that looks like a ranged unit which should be countered by cavalry, but actually counters cavalry, and that unit is from ———————
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They have a bloody chart accessible in-game (both within and without the match) lol. They also have campaigns, at the end of which you basically learned all the unit counters.
And few exceptions? Not really. They have a lot of exceptions.
You just deliberately misdefined a word to prove a point. But whatever.
That’s not a toolset. Art of War and Single Player never mimics multiplayer human behavior. Next.
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They also have campaigns, at the end of which you basically learned all the unit counters.
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Yes. I wonder why AOE2 does not have one.
Uhhhh except handcannoneers kiting has always beaten horses.
It does not have unique unit counter crash course.
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Uhhhh except handcannoneers kiting has always beaten horses.
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Another thing casual players can immediately learn of course huh?
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only on grid and on an key that is not very used in game. I mean for a custom hotkeys
You never factored in new players. You did a “whatabout” with Jannisaries and I enteretained it Now you’re just keep adding factors to new point you brought up (regarding unit counters) to better your point. You just went off topic. But whatever.
Regardless, horses charging in will always poorly trade with hand cannons without micro but still win vs Jannisaries without micro. Poorer trade, but they will still win out. You can test it out. Jannisaries’ bonus damage does not make them a hard coutner to cav.
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You did a “whatabout” with Jannisaries and I enteretained it Now you’re just keep adding factors to new point you brought up (regarding unit counters) to better your point. You just went off topic. But whatever.
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You: Goths huskarls Goths huskarls Goths huskarls
Also you: whaaaaaataboutism!
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Regardless, horses charging in will always poorly trade with hand cannons without micro but still win vs Jannisaries without micro. Poorer trade, but they will still win out. You can test it out. Jannisaries’ bonus damage does not make them a hard coutner to cav.
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Listen relic. Remove janissaries’ bonus on cavalry. It does not matter.
Also, how many of these you describe here are immediately obvious to “casual players” who never want to learn about the game?
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