Being able to build structures that generate resources isn’t ideal for gameplay.
There’s a reason why C&C games didn’t take that approach either.
Instead, there were derricks that generated gold, but you couldn’t build new ones. You had to capture and protect them on the maps.
I thought the cost was 1000 of each resource, granted I haven’t built a wonder in a gazillion years so I could be wrong lol
I don’t think UUs are that rare.
This is different from building castles and towers, because sending villagers to the front line to build means stopping the continuous gathering of resources. Also, the number of your villagers are limited, and constructing buildings is not as fast and convenient as training units.
Imagine a Condottiero that doesn’t require population space but becomes increasingly expensive.
If I hit Imperial Age earlier than you and don’t have a bad economy, I can convert resources into a large number of such units in a short time, which have no quantity limit and do not require upgrades and houses. I could probably spam dozens or even over 100 mercenaries and drive up the price several times. Even if you survive my mercenary rush and hit Imperial Age, you either need to spend resources and time waiting for other units to upgrade, or spend a price that may be many times higher than what I spent to buy mercenaries of the same quality. The entire game will be more tilted towards those who are already ahead.
If it’s just a captureable building on the map, yeah it could be easier for balancing, but that’s not what this topic is about, isn’t it? Just like we wouldn’t think of Monument as “a universal building for all civs”, as it is not in the common tech tree.
A Wonder cost 1000 wood, 1000 gold and 1000 stone currently.
I make it only costs 1000 wood and 1000 stone and is able to generate resources, but not going to trigger the timer automatically. If you want to trigger the timer, now it costs another 1000 food and 1000 gold.
Yeah. I just suggested 3 buildings that I already talked about in the past.
The Shipyard is the one that makes the most sense for sure.
1000 of each resource is not much to pay for victory, is it?
Building an army to defeat the enemy certainly costs more.
Especially in team games that it’s very cheap. There is a reason why people hat playing with Wonder Victory.
Ah still… I just dont see a scenario where if you have 1000 gold and stone sitting in the bank it isn’t better to immediately spend it on units.
You two seem to have opposite opinions on the value for price of Wonder. You can discuss it.
I’m just suggesting a possible way to make Wonders be more used than they are now. Part of it was inspired by Trade Monopoly from AoE3.
The price is an essential part of that discussion. If its not viable, then it doens’t matter what fantastic powers you give to the wonder, it wont see play.
I would do something much simpler, with changes that only take effect in 1vs1 with Conquest settings (which are 99.98% of matches):
Easy to implement, useful for late game 1v1 without being broken
If it’s viable in 1v1 Arabia it’s utterly broken in almost any other setting.
The only way to make it balanced in every situations would be to make the cost and construction time depend on gamemode, map and team size. Not sure if that’s a good idea.
1000 of each resource is a lot in a 1v1 and it’s hard to defend a building like that on an open map.
But if we are playing 4v4 on Amazon Tunnel the situation is completely different. It should be easy for 4 players to afford this and it also easy to defend it long enough.
Maybe Wonder should just not be used in 1v1 Arabia. Maybe its ok if it’s an aspect of the game that only gets used in team games or casual settings. Would that be bad?
99.98% of what? Ranked 1v1 games?
The majority of players doesn’t even play ranked and many people play ranked team games.
The game exists outside of 1v1 Arabia, you know.
That means 30 Gold per minute (0.5 per Second). If would take >16 minutes to pay of the 500 Gold cost.
A Feitoria produces 1.6 Food, 0.7 Wood, 1.0 Gold and 0.3 Stone per Second and only costs 350 Gold and 300 Stone.
Thought it takes up 20 population.
Maybe AoE2 could copy AoE3 in adding a fishable animal that gives gold instead of food. It already copied AoE3 where it shouldn’t (giving Organ guns to Portuguese), after all.
Chronicles already introduces Oysters and it they will work outside of Antiquity mode starting next patch so they could be added to any map.
I’d be nice if they would add wood to water too. Maybe make Fishing Ships able to work on Mangroves.
I know about oysters, but they’re restricted to coasts, right? Might as well add my suggestion too.
Edit: as for wood, what about driftwood?
Oysters are often generated close to the cost but there is no restrictions like shore fish have.
Driftwood sounds like it shouldn’t provide much wood. Shipwrecks (generated with the Map not actual ships sinking in the match) could also provide some wood and even gold.
But to get enough Wood you need a “forest”. A “forest” out of driftwood sounds strange.
Maybe just the idea to be able to trade for Wood would work.
Originally they wanted to add a feature that allowed you to trade with “outside” of the map. Ships disappear at the edge of the map and then come back a little later with Wood on them.
Maybe it could only work in the corners to make them strategically interesting places to fight over.
Yes, let’s stick to the problem: Although one can build Wonders in conquest mode they are of no use.
How to fix it? Any new tech OP or not, or an excessive source of resources would lead to having to redo the big balancing job. So it is out of the question.
The only feasible thing seems to me to give gold as a relic. In the end in the game we have both ‘Burgundian Vineyards’ (29 farmers = 1 relic) and ‘Paper Money’ (24 lumberjacks = 1 relic).
The cost of the Wonder could probably be lowered even more, say 400W 200G. But it seems to me an entirely feasible route.
I made a thread a few months ago about adding something like the Wonder Age for AoE2 where we discussed possible bonuses for Wonders in Conquest (there should still be a setting to turn them off completely).
I’d rather suggest letting them generate more Gold then making them cheaper.
Scaling the costs by player numbers might also be a good option in general.
500 Resources per Player (independent of which team they are on).
So 1000 like now in 1v1 but up to 4000 in 4v4 or a 8 player FFA.
It could provide some bonus to the entire team to make up for the increased cost. Giving one of your existing civ bonuses to your team mates might be a really cool mechanic.
If it trickles resources it should be like 5 Gold per second. Much more then those unique techs but they are also much easier to get and they can’t be destroyed.
Or maybe a very simple idea. You can trade with your wonder as if it were an allied market.
This way it would be viable in 1v1 but totally not broken at all in Team games. And it would just add a mechanic that already exists and is balanced to 1v1s.
Maybe the Wonder could add the bonus feature that you can choose to trade other resources (no Stone though).
Wood can be more valuable then Gold on Water maps. This way it stays relevant in team games too. Food would probably never be worth it though.
Better would be the utility of Trade Workshop!
And on reed too. Driftwood can be good.
Also a new regional building : the bamboo farm. Similar to the farm but you can harvest wood. Also a civilization bonus can harvest food in addition of wood (bamboo stem).
Reeds don’t have much wood and would be mostly on the coast and accesible to villagers.
Since AoE3 is over. I think it would be cool if there was vassals or minor civilizations. It would solve a lot of wants that are not too different from the major civilizations. It could be the same building for mercenaries.
A random idea: Trading Post.
It has no special functions like training trade carts or buying/selling resources but allows players to send their own trade carts here to trade. As with the Market, the greater the distance, the more gold is available. It will allow players to trade in single player even without GAIA Markets, as long as it can be properly protected when it is built remotely. However, since the building itself costs expensive, such as 300 wood and 100 gold, trade in team games should still build Markets instead of Trading Posts.
Perhaps it could also be allowed to be built on the shore so that trade cogs could come and trade too.