Age of Mythology Retold adds a new feature called “Wonder Age” it’s basically a big passive bonus that is granted as soon as you build a wonder.
In AoMRs case those bonuses are:
Myth units are 50% stronger
God Powers cost 50% less and recharge 90% faster
1 Favour/second resource generation
Titan Gates can be rebuild every 10 minutes
Obviously none of those bonuses apply to AoE2 but what if Wonders would give strong bonuses instead of just a game winning counter.
The same applies to collecting all resources.
This would be an alternative game mode to default (wonder and relic victory) and conquest (where wonders have no purpose).
The idea would be to give players that build a wonder or collect all relics bonuses that are so strong that they can brake most stalemates.
As soon as the wonder is destroyed all the bonuses are lost.
I think that would feel a lot more rewarding to win with strong bonuses instead of with a simple countdown.
The same in reverse it feels a lot less frustrating to lose against someone that has strong bonuses instead losing against a timer.
I once proposed that as wonders are often religious buildings, relics can be placed in them and yield more gold than in a monastery. Still very tame compared to AOMR.
The main issue is how any blanket bonus would unbalance the game…
The idea of this bonus would be to do exactly hat.
If you are able to successfully build a wonder you get a bonus so powerful that you are almost guaranteed to win.
It’s a mechanic to brake a stalemate. It would mostly be used in closed maps in team games.
For balance reasons the cost for building a wonder could also be increased.
1000 Wood/Gold/Stone is not that much. That’s not even 2 Castles worth of Stone.
The main cost for a wonder is currently the villager time spend on building it.
This system could also be designed to make the endgame more “cool”.
In AoM it buffs the Myth units and God Powers.
Maybe buffing the “cool” aspects of AoE2 like unique units would be an option.
It’s hard to find a good universal bonus for every civ and it’s even harder to find a unique bonus for every civ too.
Maybe it should give a improved version of your main civilisation bonus or unique technology.
It should probably buff your unique unit.
Some ideas:
Castle Unique unit -20% cost +100% train speed
5 Gold/second (= 10 relics or 5 Feitorias)
All units deal 20% more damage
All units receive 20% less damage (Bonus damage and normal Melee+Pierce Damage)
All units heal 1% HP per second
No bonuses for buildings though because that could lead to an even worse stalemate if both sides have a wonder.
Even if all those bonuses where combined it would not guarantee victory but it would make it a lot more likely.
In AoE3 the Imperial Age gives all your units +50% attack and HP (50% of base stats not of the upgraded stats but it’s still more then 20% anyway) on top of other strong bonuses like 50% faster resource collection and being able to send all shipments again.
Something that would be interesting (that I incorporated into a modern day Age of Empires game concept) would be a special unique bonus for each civ being granted after you build a Wonder, as a way of breaking stalemates. These bonuses would be powerful and could lead to a swift victory if used right to justify the time and cost of building a Wonder.
Then both players have a wonder bonus and it’s back to being a stalemate.
Maybe less trash wars though since the Wonder could give gold.
Starting to build a wonder when you notice your enemy building one would become a strategy too of course.
Or you try using the time to inflict maximum damage making the enemy even lose with a wonder build since they sacrificed too much economy.
That would be really hard to come up with for each civilisation unless it’s just an improved version of an existing bonus.
I had a similar idea: all bonuses and unique techs become twice as powerful.
Example: Britons
Town Centres cost -100% wood
Foot archers +4 range
Shepherds work 50% faster
Team bonus: archery ranges work 20% faster
Yeomen: foot archers +2 range, towers +4 attack
Warwolf: trebuchets have double blast radius
Some things I think this has going for it:
I think it’s clear and easy to understand – if you already know your civ’s bonuses, you know what the effect of building a wonder will be.
Lots of people seem to enjoy mods that boost civ bonuses, 256× techs, etc., and this has a similar spirit.
It enhances the unique features of your civ, whereas a generic bonus for everyone would make civs more similar.
There’s a (tenuous) thematic link, in that your wonder is unique to your civilisation and this enhances the things that your civilisation specialises in.
One possible drawback is that some bonuses are more useful than others in the late game, e.g. for Britons, the archer bonus would be very useful, the town centre bonus might be situationally useful, and the sheep bonus would almost certainly be useless. Some bonuses will definitely be useless, e.g. Italians’ cheaper age ups, Burgundians early eco tech availability – but I think that’s ok because it will be obvious which bonuses will be useful and which won’t.
But maybe it should be a mix of generic and unique bonuses while the unique bonus is based on existing civilisation bonuses.
Often people have a lot of floating resources so doubling many economic bonuses would likely not change much.
Looking at the civilisation list there are many civilisations that have no hard hitting bonuses only accumulative economic bonuses.
There are a lot of civilisations that have no bonus that increases the Attack, HP or armour of any units.
Generic:
Castle Unique unit -20% cost +100% train speed
5 Food, Wood and Gold per second
It will take a few hours to come up with a bonus for each civilisation (based on their existing bonuses) and some testing to balance them out but I think it’s very doable.
Some bonuses could be civ bonuses of other civilisations instead.
Like Britons could get faster firing archers while Ethiopians could get more range.
Or the bonus could remove some of the civilisations biggest weaknesses like making Briton Archers 100% accurate.
Maybe in some cases the wonder would just undo a nerf the civilisation got in the past.
Obsidian Arrows, let’s go!
Crazy as in too powerful? For me, the whole point is that it should be too powerful.
Yes, some civs will get much more out of it than others. Perhaps, rather than “twice as powerful” it could just be “more powerful”, with a bigger boost for civs with less late-game-focussed bonuses.
Not sure why you think attack, HP and armour are the only relevant stats to boost – range and rate of fire increases would also be very powerful here.
The only civs I can see with no land unit stat bonuses are Berbers, Huns, Malay and Portuguese. (As an aside, I guess Malay would gain 20 gold per swordsman trained in my system!)
These seem like good generic bonuses, especially the unique unit one – although, again, it would be more useful for some civs than others.
Not keen on this because I don’t want civs to become more similar. Part of my motivation for my suggestion was that civs would become more different.
Not keen on this for similar reasons.
(6+3)-range elite war wagons with a bonus against rams and less weakness to skirmishers, let’s go!
Wonders automatically convert all enemy civilians into “tourists,” who can no longer work, and are auto-tasked to your wonder, where they spend all of their civilization’s gold on trinkets and tours.
/S
As a separate game mode, I’m definitely on board. It scratches an itch to have wonders do something useful and could introduce flavorful new bonuses that can be wilder than what is acceptable in existing game modes, but that a lot of people seem to have a taste for. If nothing else it would probably be quite a bit more popular than battle royale.
In addition to the possibilities mentioned, wonders could provide the option to research one or more unique techs that would be OP in normal games, unlock an extra upgrade for your units, or allow you to train a hero unit that buffs your other units. This could be semi-customizable or at least allow one of two choices as in AoM or the Rome at War mod. As a spitball example, Japanese could have one possible tech choice be Sengoku Jidai, which allows samurai to train from barracks, unlocks a ninja unit with obscene LOS and/or stealth, and spawns a Daimyo or Shogun hero unit that buffs nearby troops.
I’m pretty confused as to why you’re saying/asking this. Firstly, because most of the buildings you’ve named here are from way before the AoE2 time period. But secondly, because wonders are already in the game – most of them represent specific actual buildings – and this thread is about discussing what gameplay effects they could have.
Stonehenge wasn’t built by Celts. And why would anyone in AoE2 build Stonehenge?
I agree with your post except for relics. Maybe with more time, I will agree with relics, but for now, I don’t.
Yeah, I posted before that giving Wonders some bonus to your civilization (aside from just decoration and points) would be cool. Like faster resource collection, stronger units, etc. I’ve always felt it weird that Wonders don’t really do anything in Conquest games.
I though maybe this post meant that these big bonuses would imbalance the game compared to currently:
Some civs designed around being very reliant on gold (like eagle civs, or Turks) or bad trash wars (like Franks, Teutons, Turks, eagle civs, or Vikings) might become too oppressive if they can carry their mid game power to a wonder with high gold income.
Even though the post was probably about asymetrical wonder bonuses (some being too weak and others too strong).
That doesn’t contradict what I said. Broadening the scope to something as vague as “stone monuments” is all well and good, but the idea that Stonehenge is representative of all stone monuments is silly. In the case of the Celts, I assume you’re thinking of Pictish stones, which are nothing like Stonehenge.
Yes, technically. But that doesn’t help you either: none of the civs in RoR built Stonehenge.
Yes, I realise that. I don’t know why you’d propose that though, and your justification just seems to be that Rise of Nations did it.
This wasn’t important for wonders even in 1999, and it certainly isn’t now. Don’t recognise a name? Just Google it.
What I have said is that this ROR DLC needs more new units and civilisations (Gauls/Celts, Iberians, Nubians, etc) and graphical assets to truly flourish and live up to its billing…
As for the Celtic “stones”, I am referring to dolmens and the like. Do note that they were not only built by Celts, and were built by other civilisations in Africa/Middle East/Asia as well.
We would have to choose bonuses in a way that doesn’t make civs more similar.
But it would be impossible to come up with new bonuses for everyone and it would also take away a lot of potential new bonuses for new civilisations.
The idea if removing some key weaknesses is to help make it a game ending thing.
You need to remember that Wonders are currently literally supposed to just make you win.
I think it would probably be best for that game mode to keep Relics as a victory countdown.
You can prevent relic victory of your enemy relatively easily by just taking one relic and defending it well.
On a closed make you often can’t take out a wonder in time on the other hand.
The Celts did not build Stonehenge.
All the megalithic monuments build in Western Europe and Northern Africa where build by an older civilisation that was replaced by the Indo European people that migrated/conquered those lands.
So Stonehenge should not be a Celtic wonder.
The wonder would basically add a new phase to the game that currently doesn’t exist.
It’s beyond the normal late game.
I also suggested increasing the price of the wonder to make it more of an investment.
Though the villager time alone is a massive cost.
I think the best idea is to have a set of fixed bonuses for all and then 1-2 bonuses for each civilisation depending on what could help them best to win a game.
One thing I want to do is give trash units some bonuses too which help to win long games.
Bonuses for all
Castle Unique units cost -20% and train 100% faster
5 Food+Wood+Gold per second
Bonus ideas for civilisations:
Armenians: All Infantry (Including the Spear Line) +20 HP
Aztecs: All Infantry and Skirmishers +2 attack
Bengalis: Cavalry +2 attack vs. all Archers instead of just Skirmishers, Elephants immune to conversion
Berbers: All cavalry regenerate 1 HP/second
Bohemians: Gunpowder units cost 20% less Gold
Britons: +1 attack to all ranged units
Bulgarians: All Infantry and Cavalry +10 HP
Burgundians: Flemish Militia cost 0.5 Population and -5 Gold
Burmese: Monks cost Wood instead of Gold
Byzantines: Skirmisher and Spearman Lines cost 0.5 population
Celts: All Infantry +3 attack
Chinese: Unlocks Hand Cannons and Bombard Cannons
Cummans: Mounted units +20 HP
Dravidians: All Infantry +0/1 armour
Ethiopians: All Infantry and Archers +1 attack
Franks: Mounted units have +30% HP instead of +20%
Georgians: Cavalry regenerate 60 HP/minute instead of 15
Goths: Dead Infantry refund 5 Gold (excluding Halberdiers)
Gurjaras: Camel Riders and Elephant Archers +0/2 armour
Hindustanis: Camel Riders +1/1 armour, Gunpowder units attack 20% faster
Huns: Mounted Archers +1/1 armour
Incas: Eagle Warriors, Kamayuks and Slingers +10 speed
Italians: Food Archers (including Skirmishers) +10 HP, Condottiero +20 HP
Japanese: Mounted Archers +2 attack vs. all units not just Archers
Khmer: Battle Elephants do 50% trample damage instead of just 25%
Koreans: Mangonel Line +2 range (on top of +1 range)
Lithuanians: Relic bonus applied to all Infantry and Cavalry
Magyars: Light Cavalry cost 0.5 population
Malay: Militia Line cost 0.5 population
Malians: All Infantry +2/0 armour
Mayans: Archers +6 damage vs. Buildings
Mongols: Scout Cavalry Line and Steppe Lancers +50% HP instead of +30%
Persians: Mounted units generate 10 Gold for every unit killed
Poles: All units regenerate 20 HP/Minute not just Villagers
Portuguese: All units cost -30% Gold instead of -20%
Romans: Skirmishers benefit from both UTs (fire 33% faster, 5 charged attacn and train 50% faster)
Saracenes: Camel Units +50% HP instead of +25%
Sicilians: Land units receive -50% bonus damage instead of -33%
Slavs: Cavalry affected by Druzhina
Spanish: Gunpowder units attack 33% faster instead of 18%
Tatars: All mounted units affected by Silk Armour
Teutones: Garrisoned units don’t take up population (but need free population to be ungarrisoned)
Turks: All gunpowder units +1 range (including Janissaries and Hand Cannons)
Vietnamese: All Archers +40% HP instead of +20%
Vikings: Infantry +40% HP instead of +20%
I’m open for better ideas. I just wanted to throw some into the room.
I tried to increase civ bonuses where I think it makes sense. Generally I wanted to try making the army stronger and tried to avoid discounts.
My number are certainly not balanced yet.
Maybe they are still a little to tame and would not really be game winning in most situations.