I don’t see why the Germans should be able to build the Uhlan, when its literally a unit most German armies would come to use.
The problem with the mercenaries is that there are also a few charistic units, like the black rider, which are now mercenaries. I also am pretty sure there are no unique German units to replace an unit to be like a hussar.
Maybe uhlans could get the Coustillier treatment (AoE2:Burgundians)… buff hp, give it a charged lance attack and a worse sword attack for the time between the lance attacks.
its a bit gimmicky, but it would preserve the uhlans charackteristics
that’s a fun theory and all but the name is in fact from an Austrian regiment/uniform.
essentially they are ethnic poles fighting in Austrian service, hense why the germans have them.
also the most famous regiments of Uhlans are all Austrian, not polish, in fact if we see Poland added i am not sure they would even add Uhlan to their roster cause they almost certainly already will have winged hussars, so unless winged hussars are an age 3 unit then Uhlan wont be added.
also what would you replace them with? Hungarian hussars? that would likely just make the faction too strong not to mention that by then we are back the same argument about it really being “Hungarian”.
That’s what I’m talking about. AoE3 devs created the name of the unit basing on an element of their clothing. Overall, there is nothing special about it, as there are more similar cases in the game, albeit based rather more on armament rather than clothing (like Yumi Archer, Qiang Pikeman, Changdao Swordsmen etc). But when basing on weapons, such a term-formation by devs makes at least some sense (as it allows to distinguish a such unit from other units of this type), whereas in the case of Czapka Uhlans it does not.
It would be different if that name would base on some famous unit or regiment called this way. But as I said before there were no units called Czapka Uhlans in Polish or Austrian, Prussian, Russian etc armies (if you know any, please share with us) and It just looks like the devs creation.
Highly debatable thesis.
I agree, there would be some better cavalry units for the Polish UU, even apart from the Winged Hussars (which are must-be for this faction).
Stats do not matter as long as these can be just changed. So that is not an argument. However, as you have noticed, the Magyar Hussars are also not suitable for other reasons.
This is a good, though difficult question. I hoped to hear some interesting suggestions.
For me, the best option for a unique cavalry unit of the generic faction of “Germans” in AoE3 timeline, would be a unit called just “Reiter”, as it is a generic german word for rider/cavalryman/trooper/equestrian.
One of these - Black Riders (Schwarze Reiter) are already in the game as mercenary unit (and de facto Swedish UU btw). Schwarze Reiter were basically a kind of poor cuirassiers, but in the West the name “Reiter” has also spread as a general term for all other German-style cavalry (understood as various types of pistoliers):
So, they could be added as melee cavalry with similar role as the current AoE3 Uhlan (high attack, low HP), but with additional ranged attack like Swedish Hakkapelit. Unfortunately, there is already one unit in the game with a homologous name - Dutch Ruyter (or Ruiter - again rider/horseman/etc).
Another solution would be to remake the “Germans” faction and narrow it down to the Austrian Empire only. Then units like the Croat Riders, known mainly from Habsburg Armies would be justified in some way as UU for “Austrians”, but it seems to me that we would go a bit too far here and that would implicate more changes, so this variant is a topic for a different discussion and thread.
my personal opinion, and not one that i base on reading or say as an authority on uhlans, regarding this is that when i hear Uhlan i immediately relate them to Austria.
yes ofc they originates in Poland but when i think of places of them being involved it usually seems to involve Austria, ofc this might likely be a bias towards the later period where Poland, ehm, was absent.
i got to be honest I’m not quiet sure what you see as an issue with uhlans for Germans since they operated in many German states, but obviously most prominently in Austrian service.
yeah that is sort of the problem with choosing such a name but i like the pictures you found. i also dont think its a good idea to give them a ranged attack since Germany needs a dedicated melee cav if we replace uhlan, and if people can shoot, well they will choose ranged.
I real life it is not uncommon to have this aswell, Black reiter is an example. The devs needed a name different from Imperial uhlan. There isnt thst many options there, so Czapka uhlan is just decent.
As you mentioned, reiters are already in the game. Also the primary characteristic of the Reiter, was the use of firearms. So to make it melee is like giving the Spanish lancer a pistol.
Why would you do this? They represent Germans, so the people group, not a specific country (but ofcourse the countries they were part of, is what they will be inspired for). We also dont need both Prussians and Austrians, which then just ignores half of the Germans, not to mention they both are the same people groups (if Prussians is refering to the German Prussians). Of course you could refer to Austrians as someone from Austria, but technically the Austrian erblande were in personal union, so it wasnt one state untill 1804-1806 (which is major part of AoE III timeline)
I didn’t say I would do it, but only that it is an option if someone would like to use units like Croats, Grenzers and other stuff characteristical for Austrian/Habsburg military (but not the whole German).
Personally, I am also not a fan of breaking up the faction of “Germans” into individual German states like Austria or Prussia (or the simultaneous existence of the faction of “Germans” and “Austrians”, what would be completely nonsense, sometimes proposed in this forum by various users).
The “Germans” faction is ok, but it would be good if in their basis they would reflect some common part of all German states, not an abstract mix of selected elements from individual German states.
So using units that were not related to one state, but generally to the territory of HRE, such as Landsknecht, Doppelsöldner, Reiter, Jaeger, Landwehr etc. This however limits the choice as it excludes units related to individual states, e.g. mentioned before Croat (related mostly to Austria) or Bosniak (related mostly to Prussia) cavalry, what without this requirement would be pretty interesting propositions. That’s all.
The primary characteristic of the Uhlans, was the use of lances. So making them raid cavalry with sabres is like doing the same with Spanish Lancers, Tokala Soldiers, Indian Jats etc.
Dopplesoldner is South German in general, so is the settler wagon. Uhlans are both Prussian and Austrian and pretty sure some other German states also had them. Jeagers (although not for the civ, but are accesible) are Hessian and black reiter which is also not trainable in stable, but is via homecity and German is from basically all of Germany, but mainly Northern part. All German units in game basically cover all German territory.
This all you also state, so why do you contradict yourself? Because later you state you also want to see units of indiviidual states? But also thats the thing. They are a people group, Germans, not a state.
A lance is tipically used once and then you go to your sword. Uhlans purpose atleast in the Prussian army was to fight up close, so you would see I would asume more sword fighting in that, than lance action. The Austrian Uhlans would eventually switch entirely to swords, although this is outside AoE III. The thing mainly with a reiter, is that their role on the battlefield was to use their firearms to scare the enemy and bring disorder, while the role of the lance was mainly to rout the enemy (atleast in the Prussian Uhlans) So yeah technically you could make a reiter with just a sword, but even then, we already have 2 units which are reiters.
Eu acho que os Ulanos estão bem da forma que se encontram no momento, mas se talvez quisessemos melhorá-los principalmente quanto a sua durabilidade no campo de batalha e nos raids contra aldeões inimigos uma alternativa interessante seria aumentar a armadura, uma vez que a relação dele com o Hussardo é semelhante a que Cassadores e Skirmishers têm.
As well as half of Europe… Just like the Hussars. Both are general types of European cavalry, that were born in Eastern Europe (Poland/Hungary), and then (through Germany) became more common in Western Europe. There is no reason to take Hussars as characteristical only for Germans and unavaible for other European factions, as well as there is no reason to do the same with Uhlans.
Sabre fighting is the domain of the Hussars, also found in most of the German armies of that period. Not only that, there is even such a unit in the game… So, there is no need to create fictional sabre-focused Uhlans being the synonym of Hussars with a bit different stats. In general there is no compulsion for the Germans faction to have a unique Hussars counterpart, it may as well use the regular ones, or some Royal Guard version. There are many other potential UUs to do Germans distinguishable enough from the other European factions.
But why to do this? The Hackapells were also originally a melee-only unit, but that just changed. And that’s fine (even if that changed some old strategies basing on the original version of this unit). Some people like you think that if there was something in classic AoE3 then it must remain the same - oh well, no. The only limitations are the devs taste and historical conditions.
I didn’t say anything like that. I just stated that when looking for a new unit for “Germans”, two different approaches to this faction should be taken into account. Does it represent the Germans as a generic whole or an abstract mix of individual German states? Depending on the response, different unit propositions may be taken into account. And the answer to this question is in the hands of devs themselves, not me or you.
Relying on one of the interviews where they laughed at the idea of Austrians in the game, I assume they are closer to the first approach. Hence the idea of Reiter, to be consequent with that approach. However, I also consider different approaches of devs, as this can always change. Hence the mention of Austrian Croats or Prussian Bosniaks. So there is no contradiction, as long as I distinguish both of these approaches as separate, mutually exclusive ways to develop faction of “Germans”. Unlike you, I am not going to say which is the right one (at most mentioning what personally I would prefer) and I simply adapt to different options.
