Ideas for new units backed up with historical background ( possible new expansion )

Hey people, first of all I would like to state that I really enjoy playing AoE:DE even though there are some issues that will eventually get fixed. Even though this is a re-master of the old game, I felt that something is still missing if we look closer into the unit roster and variety that is available for creating our strategy. My aim with this post is to create a possible “IF” topic that focus into the units. In real life I am a historian and thus I work as one. So, lets start:

Medium Axemen this will be the first improvement to the original Tool Age unit that will provide the players to have good Bronze and Iron Age unit mainly considered as “trash” or optional unit strong against most Bronze Age units and those of the Tool Age. Should be able to look differently with possible armor ( leather type ) as well as bronze axe. As for factions that get bonuses for this, I would suggest that most of the “Fertile Crescent” civilizations have the option for it. Egypt should be able to have them for decreased cost because of the Nile fertility as well as massive usage of axe conscripts, Sumer should be able to give them increased speed and LOS since the Sumerians were the first to deploy contigents of axe wielding light ( shock ) units and finally Minoans will provide increased attack values because their most used vase, wall and painting symbol was the “Labris” or the double-headed axe. For unlocking the upgrade, the player would have to research the “Metal Working” technology from the Storage Pit.

Improved Slinger for now the slingers provide the needed early Tool Age and Bronze Age rush since the unit is very cheap and good for taking down archers and towers. But, after entering into late game, the slinger becomes useless and not affordable since it is very weak against most upgraded units. This in particular will boost the normal unit in terms of stats, attack, HP and armor. Since the dawn of humanity and the foundation of the first civilizations, the sling was considered as powerful yet easily affordable tool ( weapon ). Balearic, Rhodian slingers were mostly famed for their skill with it. Civilizations as Carthage should benefit from this upgrade in terms of attack, Greeks in terms of speed and HP and Assyrians or Hittites in terms of increased dmg. against archers and towers since they mainly used them not only in open battles but in sieges as well. This will be a Bronze Age upgrade that will be unlocked after the “Stone Mining” technology is researched in the Market.

Javelineer/Peltast one of the first ever man created weapons was the spear. This simple wooden, elongated stick was trough out the ages designed and developed to inflict devastating impact in antiquity era battles. This unit will be Bronze Age good counter against chariots, elephants and heavy infantry. Recruited from the Archery range. Romans should provide increased dmg. against elephants since they used the Javelin, Pila and later the Soliferum with great effect. Macedonians will give this unit increased speed bonuses thanks to the usage of Agrianian and Thracian Peltasts and finally, the Greeks increased HP because of the famed Iphicratean reforms that completely changed the tactics of using javelins.

**Armored/Heavy Camel ** camels that contained heavy scale armor were mainly used by the eastern cultures until the Arabs emerged and started their conquests. The successors of the Parthians know as Sassanids, were mainly focused on heavy cavalry tactics and usage of Armored Camels. Same goes with the Palmyrans who during the time of Odenathus had similar units. Palmyrans should provide increased HP for this unit as well as speed while the Persians will give them strong armor values and dmg. bonuses against other cavalry. Strict Iron Age upgrade that would require “Chain Mail for Cavalry” technology from the Storage Pit.

Spearmen similar to the axe, sling, primitive bow and throwing spear, this tool was widely used not only in antiquity but later, in the Middle Ages as primary weapon for infantry. In AOE, this unit will serve as another Bronze Age “trash” unit strong for engaging cavalry. Historically wise the Chinese dynasties fielded massive spear armed units trough out their long history as well as the Babylonians who were said to implement the first “modernized” armies. Shang should be able to recruit them at lower costs, Babylonians will provide increased HP while Yamato will have them with increased HP and attack since the spear was the prelude to the later Yari ( Naginata ) units. Available in the Barracks.

Light Cavarly Bronze Age upgrade for the scout since this unit is only good at Tool Age for taking down villagers and ranged units. In most antique battles, the light cavalry was crucial turning point and sometimes proved to even out maneuver the heavier type. Should resemble an visual upgrade in forms of giving leather armor for the rider as well as shield. In order to get the upgrade, the player should research the “Logistics” technology from the Government Centre.

Mule Cart mules are said to be one of the first domesticated animals in the “Fertile Crescent” and were used to pull carts and later as primary animal for pulling goods for trade. My point for this non fighting unit is to make another improvement to the land trade since in late game most players lack the needed resources. Something similar is found in Age of Mythology, AoE 2. This will be a Bronze Age unit recruited from the Market and will later benefit from the “Wheel” and “Coinage” technologies.

Now I will pots some units stats about the presented units. Note that these stats are not set in stone nor will represent the bonuses gained per civilizations:

Medium Axemen: 55HP, 7 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. melee chariots and spearmen. Easily countered by archers.
Improved Slinger: 35 HP, 4 attack and 3 pierce armor. Same attack bonuses as now.
Javelineer/Peltast: 40 HP, 5 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. chariots and elephants. Easily countered with other archers and cavalry.
Armored/Heavy Camel: 135 HP, 6 attack and 4 armor. Increased damage vs. other melee cavalry and horse archers. Countered by heavy infantry ( Academy units line ) ballista and in some cases archers/javelinmen.
Spearmen: 70 HP, 7 attack, 1 pierce armor and 2 armor. Strong vs. normal cavalry. Easily countered by archers and axemen. Suggested by pate623
Light Cavalry: 80 HP, 6 attack and 1 pierce armor.
Mule Cart: 90 HP. Easily countered by most units but has small conversion resistance.
Battering Ram: 85 HP, 8 attack and 9 pierce armor. Weak against most melee units. Increased damage vs. towers and walls

I hope that this will bring forth attention and will someday find its place in the Definitive Edition.
Best regards,
Filip Georgievski

Mule cart yes, this game needs to badly

Nice post! I have only one addition to make to your list: siege rams!

I get the feeling they’re not going to release any expansions, they’ve said before that they just want to remake the original. A day might come however when we can mod the game and I don’t see any harm in discussing potential new units in the meantime. I’d personally love to see some expansion to the base game.

Basically I agree with all of your suggestions. Many nations don’t feel unique enough, especially at the iron age. The iron age generally ended around 500 BC (though it was longer in some areas, shorter in others), but this game has units like the Centurion and the Cataphract, and it also has campaigns that go as far as the year 0 AD, with Caesar and whatnot, which means this game portrays the iron age as a period from 1000 BC to 0 AD.

There ought to be some kind of upgrade line for axemen beyond the tool age, if not for everybody then at least for eastern factions such as Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Hittites and so forth. Axes were extremely popular as a war weapon in those areas.

Javelins too would make an excellent addition as a trash unit for everybody, as everybody in the world used them in war. The Romans/Greeks/Macedonians could have an upgrade to an elite javelin unit as those factions made particularly good use of javelins. All of Alexander the Great’s phalanx soldiers were trained as peltasts so that in battle they could function either as a hoplite or defend the flanks/counter enemy elephants. The Greek states experimented heavily with a kind of medium/heavy javelin soldier also - by the time the Romans invaded Greece, the Greeks were using soldiers not entirely different to the Roman legions (as well as the traditional hoplites) - soldiers with medium armour or chainmail, armed with javelins to discharge at the enemy and swords/spears and shields to fight in melee. And of course, the Romans, who for 800 years used javelins heavily among their infantry and skirmishers.

Slingers, of course. The sling is probably the oldest weapon of war (after a pointy stick which no doubt came first), and some nations were unique in their expertise with it. Carthage should have an upgraded slinger unit to represent their use of Balearic slingers who were famous as mercenaries throughout the entire Mediterranean.

Spears… ■■■■■■■■, how can you not have a trash spear unit in a game like this? Every army on planet earth used spears heavily.

There are tons of potential units that could be added in mods or future expansions. I’d really love to see some.

@Sargon said:
Nice post! I have only one addition to make to your list: siege rams!

Agree on this, good that you reminded me. So far I came up with this conclusion about the battering ram: unit that will be similar to the AoE 2 but here in the DE version will be recruit-able in the Bronze Age trough the Workshop and thus wont receive further unit upgrades as in AoE 2. Instead, it will benefit from the “Engineering” technology from the Government Centre as well as the “Artisanship” and “Craftsmanship” technologies from the Market.

@SvelterPenny568 said:
I get the feeling they’re not going to release any expansions, they’ve said before that they just want to remake the original. A day might come however when we can mod the game and I don’t see any harm in discussing potential new units in the meantime. I’d personally love to see some expansion to the base game.

Basically I agree with all of your suggestions. Many nations don’t feel unique enough, especially at the iron age. The iron age generally ended around 500 BC (though it was longer in some areas, shorter in others), but this game has units like the Centurion and the Cataphract, and it also has campaigns that go as far as the year 0 AD, with Caesar and whatnot, which means this game portrays the iron age as a period from 1000 BC to 0 AD.

There ought to be some kind of upgrade line for axemen beyond the tool age, if not for everybody then at least for eastern factions such as Egypt, Persia, Babylon, Hittites and so forth. Axes were extremely popular as a war weapon in those areas.

Javelins too would make an excellent addition as a trash unit for everybody, as everybody in the world used them in war. The Romans/Greeks/Macedonians could have an upgrade to an elite javelin unit as those factions made particularly good use of javelins. All of Alexander the Great’s phalanx soldiers were trained as peltasts so that in battle they could function either as a hoplite or defend the flanks/counter enemy elephants. The Greek states experimented heavily with a kind of medium/heavy javelin soldier also - by the time the Romans invaded Greece, the Greeks were using soldiers not entirely different to the Roman legions (as well as the traditional hoplites) - soldiers with medium armour or chainmail, armed with javelins to discharge at the enemy and swords/spears and shields to fight in melee. And of course, the Romans, who for 800 years used javelins heavily among their infantry and skirmishers.

Slingers, of course. The sling is probably the oldest weapon of war (after a pointy stick which no doubt came first), and some nations were unique in their expertise with it. Carthage should have an upgraded slinger unit to represent their use of Balearic slingers who were famous as mercenaries throughout the entire Mediterranean.

Spears… God ****, how can you not have a trash spear unit in a game like this? Every army on planet earth used spears heavily.

There are tons of potential units that could be added in mods or future expansions. I’d really love to see some.

Mostly said it is a huge lap between era distinctions. I would strongly accept that this “fault” for spanning the Iron Age in AoE is mainly because of the wide usage of iron and the iron ore as primary resource for producing the essential tools and weapons. About the units, I prefer that the developers would make this time a clear distinction for enabling which faction to get those since I was disappointed from historical view that they added Fire Galleys to this period as well as allowing certain units ( Elephants ) to be recruited by civilizations like Phoenicians, Hittites, Sumerians, Palmyrans that never used such units and also the wide unhistorical usage of artillery by bronze era civilizations despite the fact that the first siege engines were created by Assyrians, Greeks and later Macedonians alongside Romans proved to create outstanding engines during their reign and political existence.

Medium Axeman
Swordsmen are considered the upgrade of an Axeman. Getting gold at early on isn’t problem and if you need gold cost upgrade (120G) to get the upgrade then you already have Gold Miners working. If the Medium Axeman has similar stats to a swordsmen and is Bronze Age upgrade then it is good only in tool rush -> Bronze Age transition.
In my opinion there is no need to make the tool rushing better or easier since it already is powerful.

A way to make this different from the swordsmen would be extra pierce armor/movement speed. it would be good counter to ranged units whilst still being effective against Chariots and Camel Riders unlike slinger which is weak against all melee units.
Main point being that it would still be weak against Cavalry which is often used to fight of the Tool Age units.

Improved Slinger
Slinger is already powerful if enemy goes to only CA. 10.5 damage on hit if you have high ground makes it very strong.
Only thing Slinger needs is +1 range to be valid option in Bronze Age. No HP/Armor/damage bonus is needed.

Javelineer/Peltast
I really don’t see what sort of stats you want this unit to have. how does this counter both heavy melee (Hoplite) and chariots (CA) without being OP?

Armored/Heavy Camel
Elephants are the the strongest Iron Age units and easy way to counter them isn’t good for the game (siege and Priest are best ones to counter the elephants, but there is so many ways to play around those units that it isn’t a problem)
Heavy Camels; if they can counter elephants they would be too strong and render elephants close to a useless, but as a Horse Archer counter it would be great to have Heavy Camels in game.

Spearmen
This sounds like a mixture of Hoplite and Camel. It is slowish unit that, if could be trained at early on allows to defend from Cavalry rushes at the expense of counter raid ability.
Cavalry’s strength is the ability to do an effective early raids and being able to fight off tool age units and all barrack units; making it easy to turn the enemy’s Tool Age rush into a victorious Cavalry raid.
Having Spearmen at early on in game diminish the bonuses that Cavalry has over CA.

Having Spearmen could work if it wouldn’t be easy or fast get them. Having long research path so that Cavalry would still maintains it’s bonuses over CA would allow Spearmen to be strong without stepping in the way of early Bronze unit balance. Requiring Logistics to unlock the Spearmen research would allow them to have strong stats without making them OP. (7 AD, +5 damage towards mounted units, 70 HP, 1 melee/slash armor, cost: 60F 30W, 30 sec training time)

Light Cavarly
Scouts are used when advancing from Tool Age to Bronze Age. It takes 30s to train scout and 140s to advance to Bronze. in which time you can create Stables and five Scouts which leaves you around 80 second to raid before enemy gets first bronze age units out. This is another good bonus when opting into Cavalry.
I don’t see need to give any more power to this part of the Cavalry’s power.


Having units in Barrack which requires long research paths allows Stable and Archery range to maintain their usefulness at early bronze as the best raid units and then when the time goes on would the Barrack units become more important allowing/forcing players to opt into multiple different units.

Check Rome Returns mod.
They have two of those.

@pate623 said:
Medium Axeman
Swordsmen are considered the upgrade of an Axeman. Getting gold at early on isn’t problem and if you need gold cost upgrade (120G) to get the upgrade then you already have Gold Miners working. If the Medium Axeman has similar stats to a swordsmen and is Bronze Age upgrade then it is good only in tool rush -> Bronze Age transition.
In my opinion there is no need to make the tool rushing better or easier since it already is powerful.

A way to make this different from the swordsmen would be extra pierce armor/movement speed. it would be good counter to ranged units whilst still being effective against Chariots and Camel Riders unlike slinger which is weak against all melee units.
Main point being that it would still be weak against Cavalry which is often used to fight of the Tool Age units.

Improved Slinger
Slinger is already powerful if enemy goes to only CA. 10.5 damage on hit if you have high ground makes it very strong.
Only thing Slinger needs is +1 range to be valid option in Bronze Age. No HP/Armor/damage bonus is needed.

Javelineer/Peltast
I really don’t see what sort of stats you want this unit to have. how does this counter both heavy melee (Hoplite) and chariots (CA) without being OP?

Armored/Heavy Camel
Elephants are the the strongest Iron Age units and easy way to counter them isn’t good for the game (siege and Priest are best ones to counter the elephants, but there is so many ways to play around those units that it isn’t a problem)
Heavy Camels; if they can counter elephants they would be too strong and render elephants close to a useless, but as a Horse Archer counter it would be great to have Heavy Camels in game.

Spearmen
This sounds like a mixture of Hoplite and Camel. It is slowish unit that, if could be trained at early on allows to defend from Cavalry rushes at the expense of counter raid ability.
Cavalry’s strength is the ability to do an effective early raids and being able to fight off tool age units and all barrack units; making it easy to turn the enemy’s Tool Age rush into a victorious Cavalry raid.
Having Spearmen at early on in game diminish the bonuses that Cavalry has over CA.

Having Spearmen could work if it wouldn’t be easy or fast get them. Having long research path so that Cavalry would still maintains it’s bonuses over CA would allow Spearmen to be strong without stepping in the way of early Bronze unit balance. Requiring Logistics to unlock the Spearmen research would allow them to have strong stats without making them OP. (7 AD, +5 damage towards mounted units, 70 HP, 1 melee/slash armor, cost: 60F 30W, 30 sec training time)

Light Cavarly
Scouts are used when advancing from Tool Age to Bronze Age. It takes 30s to train scout and 140s to advance to Bronze. in which time you can create Stables and five Scouts which leaves you around 80 second to raid before enemy gets first bronze age units out. This is another good bonus when opting into Cavalry.
I don’t see need to give any more power to this part of the Cavalry’s power.


Having units in Barrack which requires long research paths allows Stable and Archery range to maintain their usefulness at early bronze as the best raid units and then when the time goes on would the Barrack units become more important allowing/forcing players to opt into multiple different units.

About the axemen, it should provide another option good against ranged units, chariots and maybe buildings.
For slingers i agree even though i would state that they need maybe better armor or shield protection.
Armored camels should counter other cavarly esspecially horse archers and normal cavalry. Elephants are excluded.
The spearmen in my opinion should be the “light” version of hoplites and more affordable but weaker. Javelinmen shluld deffinetely benefit against cavalry while the Romans will provide a stronger bonus vs. elephants. Finally the ligh cavalry that i mentiones as upgrade of the scouts may come forth as better addition with slightly better stats than the scout but weaker than the normal cavalry.
This however was my intention and i am glad that you got my point and thus expanded it with good detail

@FilipGeorgievski95 said:
Medium Axemen: 55HP, 7 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. melee chariots and spearmen. Easily countered by archers.

This is too much alike with Broad Swordsman. They both have same weaknesses/strength. You don’t need bonuses towards Chariots and Spearmen to kill them because swordsmen are in their base stats so much stronger than Chariots or Spearmen.
Medium Axeman having one more slash armor but less health makes it about equally strong vs other melees and much weaker vs ranged units. The problem is that There is no reason to use Medium Axeman in Bronze Age because you get Broad Swordsmen earlier and during the creation of the units swordsmen are stronger.
Even with 8 damage the Medium Axeman would be left untouched most of the games due to the fact that Swordsmen are strictly better.
Non gold cost is considerable bonus only in late Iron Age when the gold is actually running out. Before that point losing tempo to save gold isn’t good strategy. With Swordsmen alike stats the Medium Axeman would be good only at late Iron Age or in tool rush -> Bronze Age transition.
There is no room for this unit in Bronze Age. Spearmen, Swordsmen and Hoplite are filing almost all the needs that slow infantry in Bronze Age needs.
I would move this upgrade to Iron Age with the stats somewhere between Broad Swordsman and Long Swordsman.

Improved Slinger: 35 HP, 4 attack and 3 pierce armor. Same attack bonuses as now.

the AD and HP bonuses works great and will leave a lot of space for the opponent to punish your mistakes, but the extra pierce armor is bad idea.
Getting Bronze Shield for the Slinger is the upgrade that allows Slingers to deal with Chariot Archers. giving all in one upgrade flattens out the strategy and importance of the upgrade orders.
It also makes Slingers too strong with the 4 pierce armor versus Composite Bowmen. Compies needs to be massed for them to work meaning that using other units with Compies isn’t gong to work well since it is already so late at Bronze when Compies are being used. Giving easy way to counter so easily predictable and so straight forward stylish unit as Compies is not good idea. The play around of Compies happens either; before the enemy has gotten masses of Compies, with Stone Throwers or by delaying the Compies movement so that you can get into Iron Age. It doesn’t need any strong and simple Bronze Age unit counter.

Javelineer/Peltast: 40 HP, 5 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. chariots and elephants. Easily countered with other archers and cavalry.

This is nice style and gives something brand new which is why i need to make a mod and put this on test to get results before i can make good assumptions.
The strength of this unit highly depends on how well it works with Chariot Archers. Being strong counter to Camel Riders is the biggest bonus.

Armored/Heavy Camel: 135 HP, 6 attack and 4 armor. Increased damage vs. other melee cavalry and horse archers. Countered by heavy infantry ( Academy units line ) ballista and in some cases archers/javelinmen.

Camels won’t need more damage towards HA or HHA, but rather more durability to get that close. The +10HP is not enough to do that.
+4 armor is great in term of SC countering, but makes them slightly too strong versus War Elephants (the weaker one), having 10 armor means 5 damage, 8 armor means 7 damage, and 6 armor means 9 damage (4 armor means 44% damage reduction which is equally to +55HP). With above 2 base armor the Heavy Camel is too strong against War Elephant.
To counter the Heavy Cavalry/Cataphract increasing armor won’t achieve that high difference (4 armor is equally to 38 HP versus Cataphract).
Against SC the 4 armor is equally to +50HP.
Giving only Bonus health would be most effective vs Cataphracht and HHA and would have smaller effect versus elephants which is the wanted outcome. Only downside is that increasing health and not armor is not as good against SC.
I’d give it +60HP (185 total). And no armor or damage changes in the upgrade with the cost of 450F 200G

@pate623 said:

@FilipGeorgievski95 said:
Medium Axemen: 55HP, 7 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. melee chariots and spearmen. Easily countered by archers.

This is too much alike with Broad Swordsman. They both have same weaknesses/strength. You don’t need bonuses towards Chariots and Spearmen to kill them because swordsmen are in their base stats so much stronger than Chariots or Spearmen.
Medium Axeman having one more slash armor but less health makes it about equally strong vs other melees and much weaker vs ranged units. The problem is that There is no reason to use Medium Axeman in Bronze Age because you get Broad Swordsmen earlier and during the creation of the units swordsmen are stronger.
Even with 8 damage the Medium Axeman would be left untouched most of the games due to the fact that Swordsmen are strictly better.
Non gold cost is considerable bonus only in late Iron Age when the gold is actually running out. Before that point losing tempo to save gold isn’t good strategy. With Swordsmen alike stats the Medium Axeman would be good only at late Iron Age or in tool rush -> Bronze Age transition.
There is no room for this unit in Bronze Age. Spearmen, Swordsmen and Hoplite are filing almost all the needs that slow infantry in Bronze Age needs.
I would move this upgrade to Iron Age with the stats somewhere between Broad Swordsman and Long Swordsman.

Improved Slinger: 35 HP, 4 attack and 3 pierce armor. Same attack bonuses as now.

the AD and HP bonuses works great and will leave a lot of space for the opponent to punish your mistakes, but the extra pierce armor is bad idea.
Getting Bronze Shield for the Slinger is the upgrade that allows Slingers to deal with Chariot Archers. giving all in one upgrade flattens out the strategy and importance of the upgrade orders.
It also makes Slingers too strong with the 4 pierce armor versus Composite Bowmen. Compies needs to be massed for them to work meaning that using other units with Compies isn’t gong to work well since it is already so late at Bronze when Compies are being used. Giving easy way to counter so easily predictable and so straight forward stylish unit as Compies is not good idea. The play around of Compies happens either; before the enemy has gotten masses of Compies, with Stone Throwers or by delaying the Compies movement so that you can get into Iron Age. It doesn’t need any strong and simple Bronze Age unit counter.

Javelineer/Peltast: 40 HP, 5 attack and 2 armor. Increased damage vs. chariots and elephants. Easily countered with other archers and cavalry.

This is nice style and gives something brand new which is why i need to make a mod and put this on test to get results before i can make good assumptions.
The strength of this unit highly depends on how well it works with Chariot Archers. Being strong counter to Camel Riders is the biggest bonus.

Armored/Heavy Camel: 135 HP, 6 attack and 4 armor. Increased damage vs. other melee cavalry and horse archers. Countered by heavy infantry ( Academy units line ) ballista and in some cases archers/javelinmen.

Camels won’t need more damage towards HA or HHA, but rather more durability to get that close. The +10HP is not enough to do that.
+4 armor is great in term of SC countering, but makes them slightly too strong versus War Elephants (the weaker one), having 10 armor means 5 damage, 8 armor means 7 damage, and 6 armor means 9 damage (4 armor means 44% damage reduction which is equally to +55HP). With above 2 base armor the Heavy Camel is too strong against War Elephant.
To counter the Heavy Cavalry/Cataphract increasing armor won’t achieve that high difference (4 armor is equally to 38 HP versus Cataphract).
Against SC the 4 armor is equally to +50HP.
Giving only Bonus health would be most effective vs Cataphracht and HHA and would have smaller effect versus elephants which is the wanted outcome. Only downside is that increasing health and not armor is not as good against SC.
I’d give it +60HP (185 total). And no armor or damage changes in the upgrade with the cost of 450F 200G

All in all I agree about your in detail suggestions for most units. So I will try to even improve some things concerning the needed resources for getting those units and how to balance them a bit.

For the Axemen, I completely agree with the idea for moving them to Iron Age. About their bonuses vs units, we can compensate for changing their usefulness against the swords line since the axe is good against armor and shields. this way they will be good against swordsmen and swordsmen against heavy infantry ( Academy line units ) for the resources, I will propose that we use food and wood for them.

About the slingers, well this is a tricky one for sure. Maybe increasing their HP as stated and speed for sure and maybe ( ? ) the base ( slash ) armor. Increased cost in terms of stone and food for sure.

Javelineer/Peltast I like that you expressed positive about this proposal even though my point was to make them good against melee chariots since the Chariot Archer has already strong counters in late game. Should cost wood for sure and for the dilemma between food/gold I will leave it to you.

Armored/Heavy Camels: agree on this one about your stats proposal. Maybe some speed decrease in return since camels are slower than horses but with additional armor even slower. When I mentioned cavalry, I excluded the elephants for good since elephants are considered as the highest rank in melee cavalry in AoE.

About the other tree units: “Light Cavalry”, “Battering Ram” and “Mule Cart” I would like to see your opinion weather they are worthy for mentioning and possibly adding.

@FilipGeorgievski95 said:
Light Cavalry: 80 HP, 6 attack and 1 pierce armor.

6 AD is what i also have thought as well the pierce armor, but the health bonus is too high. If you compare this Light Cavalry to Chariot when playing against CA, This light Cavalry will be more effective which i think is too strong.
Health vise the 1 pierce armor is equally to +33% HP meaning that 75 HP with 1 pierce i same as 100 HP with no pierce. Even though Chariot has 7 damage and Light Cavalry has only 6 the Light Cavalry training time is 30s whereas Chariot has 40s which means 4 stable for Chariots is equally to 3 Stables for Light cavalry. That one less Stable means around 170 wood (workers build time included).
I would give max +10 HP (70 total) so that Light Cavalry would be good in tower diving workers and for scouting without making it too strong as the primary massing unit even if the enemy goes full ranged.
But as i said before i don’t like the idea of having upgrade for Scout.

Mule Cart: 90 HP. Easily countered by most units but has small conversion resistance.

the HP isn’t the most important part of this unit stats. The movement speed and line of sight are the most important parts.
About the land trading itself i’m not interested having it in AOE 1.

Battering Ram: 85 HP, 8 attack and 9 pierce armor. Weak against most melee units. Increased damage vs. towers and walls

For a Bronze Age unit (No Iron Age upgrades as you mentioned) the pierce armor is too high. Catapults deal slash damage, and the highest land unit pierce damage in Bronze Age is 5 (War galley has 8 pierce) which means that anything above 5 pierce is almost useless at Bronze. With max 5 pierce armor the scalability to Iron age will be crippled meaning that this unit will stay as the strong bronze age unit.
I like the simple catapults for sieging style in AOE1, so i i wouldn’t want any other siege units.

For the Axemen, I completely agree with the idea for moving them to Iron Age. About their bonuses vs units, we can compensate for changing their usefulness against the swords line since the axe is good against armor and shields. this way they will be good against swordsmen and swordsmen against heavy infantry ( Academy line units ) for the resources, I will propose that we use food and wood for them.

Hoplite line counters swordsmen. One Centurion wins two Legions with 64 HP left.
Having bonus damage towards buildings and walls (not vs towers) would be much better. How i though using Medium Axemen was that i would send those mindlessly to the enemy base disturbing and slowing enemy down. Using swordsmen for that purpose at Bronze Age is not bad idea, but in Iron Age you need to use so many more of them that the gold amount that wold be spent to do that would not be worth anymore. In Bronze Age using about 40 swordsmen (600 Gold) doesn’t have much of an effect to the gold unit usage capabilities, but at Iron Age you need easily 70+ units to have decent effect. For this purpose the non gold cost Axemen would be nice to have (apart from the oblivious late game power when there is no gold left on map).

@pate623 said:

@FilipGeorgievski95 said:
Light Cavalry: 80 HP, 6 attack and 1 pierce armor.

6 AD is what i also have thought as well the pierce armor, but the health bonus is too high. If you compare this Light Cavalry to Chariot when playing against CA, This light Cavalry will be more effective which i think is too strong.
Health vise the 1 pierce armor is equally to +33% HP meaning that 75 HP with 1 pierce i same as 100 HP with no pierce. Even though Chariot has 7 damage and Light Cavalry has only 6 the Light Cavalry training time is 30s whereas Chariot has 40s which means 4 stable for Chariots is equally to 3 Stables for Light cavalry. That one less Stable means around 170 wood (workers build time included).
I would give max +10 HP (70 total) so that Light Cavalry would be good in tower diving workers and for scouting without making it too strong as the primary massing unit even if the enemy goes full ranged.
But as i said before i don’t like the idea of having upgrade for Scout.

Mule Cart: 90 HP. Easily countered by most units but has small conversion resistance.

the HP isn’t the most important part of this unit stats. The movement speed and line of sight are the most important parts.
About the land trading itself i’m not interested having it in AOE 1.

Battering Ram: 85 HP, 8 attack and 9 pierce armor. Weak against most melee units. Increased damage vs. towers and walls

For a Bronze Age unit (No Iron Age upgrades as you mentioned) the pierce armor is too high. Catapults deal slash damage, and the highest land unit pierce damage in Bronze Age is 5 (War galley has 8 pierce) which means that anything above 5 pierce is almost useless at Bronze. With max 5 pierce armor the scalability to Iron age will be crippled meaning that this unit will stay as the strong bronze age unit.
I like the simple catapults for sieging style in AOE1, so i i wouldn’t want any other siege units.

For the Axemen, I completely agree with the idea for moving them to Iron Age. About their bonuses vs units, we can compensate for changing their usefulness against the swords line since the axe is good against armor and shields. this way they will be good against swordsmen and swordsmen against heavy infantry ( Academy line units ) for the resources, I will propose that we use food and wood for them.

Hoplite line counters swordsmen. One Centurion wins two Legions with 64 HP left.
Having bonus damage towards buildings and walls (not vs towers) would be much better. How i though using Medium Axemen was that i would send those mindlessly to the enemy base disturbing and slowing enemy down. Using swordsmen for that purpose at Bronze Age is not bad idea, but in Iron Age you need to use so many more of them that the gold amount that wold be spent to do that would not be worth anymore. In Bronze Age using about 40 swordsmen (600 Gold) doesn’t have much of an effect to the gold unit usage capabilities, but at Iron Age you need easily 70+ units to have decent effect. For this purpose the non gold cost Axemen would be nice to have (apart from the oblivious late game power when there is no gold left on map).

Agreed, now lets see how will things progress and work out

I like your ideas, the costs and stats of the new units I’m not sure, but they sure can be adjusted for a better balance.
I would like to see new units being implemented, especially siege weapons. It would bring variety and historical precision to the already identical civilizations. The bigger the tree, the more varied the possible combinations.
So I agree with you.
I think Pate623 is too purist, and for him everything is perfect now, he does not want anything new. With this criterion, his opinion lacks value

The problem is that I feel that the developers would not try to improve the game further. It will be a complete shame from their side since according to most people, they simply cought us on the nostalgia feeling and took our money for that

Personally I think they will not, but I think your ideas are good. I would like them to at least improve support for mods, maybe the community will agree and work together to add those features.
I really like the story and I would love that the game has more historical precision, more variety and while it entertains us, it teaches us.
See Chinese armies as they really were, instead of hoplites it would be great.

While I’m mostly waiting for AOE 2 Definitive (as in, REAAAALLLY itching for that!), an AOE 1 DE expansion would be pretty neat. As much as I might have complained about certain aspects of the game, all told it IS fun, and my friend and I have had a great few matches.

@FilipGeorgievski95 , I like most of your unit ideas! Personally though, more than specific units, I’d like to see new empires (with unique building art). Specifically;

The Maurya Empire: Indian nation that actually did have contact (conflict) with the Greeks, so they’d fit.

Gaul

Celts

Guys lets be honest: there is a free game called 0 a.d which brings forth closer touch to antiquity and has completely unique civilizations, names, architecture and units. AoE is made by the most developed company and they still didnt managed to make it unique. That is what really disapoints me the most.

I tried 0 A.D sometime earlier last year. Something about it didn’t appeal to me (and the combat sounds were really off putting). Maybe I just need to go give it another go…

As for AOE being unique though, I don’t really follow what you mean. I mean, I’d love to see more region specific art for units and stuff too, but in all fairness, that was pretty well beyond the intended scope of AOE DE, wasn’t it? I’d be more annoyed if they had suggested they’d be doing such and then didn’t. As it stands though, the game looks pretty amazing visually, barring that one nitpick which, like most of the issues with DE, are inherited from the original game to begin with.

With that said, I do really hope that such visual distinctions come into AOE 2 DE. Again, even if its just the way Rise of Nations or Empire Earth 2 did it (by region instead of nation), it would bring things out so much more.

I also tried 0 AD, and it’s actually more accurate historically, but I did not like some things, like soldiers picking up resources, expansion area, not being able to build in neutral territory, taking buildings is crap, designing maps and plus. Anyway, I do not underestimate it, it’s a great job, but I prefer AoE.

I’m going to say one thing about AOE2 DE and hopefully the developers listen to me this time.
(there’s still a lot of time left)
CHANGE architecture for the Huns and Mongols, for a new one consisting of tents. And do not commit the atrocity of putting Aztecs with crossbowmen, galleons and metal armor. Nor barbarians with paladins …

@korowizard said:
I also tried 0 AD, and it’s actually more accurate historically, but I did not like some things, like soldiers picking up resources, expansion area, not being able to build in neutral territory, taking buildings is crap, designing maps and plus. Anyway, I do not underestimate it, it’s a great job, but I prefer AoE.

I’m going to say one thing about AOE2 DE and hopefully the developers listen to me this time.
(there’s still a lot of time left)
CHANGE architecture for the Huns and Mongols, for a new one consisting of tents. And do not commit the atrocity of putting Aztecs with crossbowmen, galleons and metal armor. Nor barbarians with paladins …

They still discuss that in their forums, taking building you can switch to destroy building.