I think now is the time for the speed of the Teutonic knight to match that of the militia line. As the game has evolved and new civs have been added, there are quite a few civs that have very strong swordsmen due to unique techs and bonuses and now supplies too making them cheaper. I dare say that Teutonic Knights are no longer OP vs a lot of swordsmen. They really need a speed buff. Or just get rid. What’s the point in having a useless UU
The Teutons could receive crenellations for free right now in imperial age and they still wouldn’t get picked much. That’s how much Teutons are in a tough spot. Maybe you let them have crenellations as a civ bonus and add a unique tech that gives Teutonic Knights a speed boost like the Persian war elephant UT mahouts. It’s pretty sad that an elephant with base 0.6 speed becomes faster than the TK.
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Teutonic knights actually are more resistant to arrows than champions (they can take 20 hits from an FU arb, against 14 only). Making them as fast as champions would make them waaaaaaaay over the top.
Welp, Teutonic knights can 1v 2 paladins and still win. It’s not champions weaker than those of say, Japanese, that will bother TK (actually, even the Aztec’s plus 4 attack doesn’t make them any better than generic vs TK)
I think exactly the same. Actually, I made a post about it. They should get a UT for that
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Yes FU TK can take 25 (i think you misscalculated there or i did think wrong dunno 11), but they cost 85 food and 40 gold, thats just 5 food less than 2 champions cost. And 2 champs take 28, they are even less likely to be produced. Make them as fast as champs, lets see how it goes.
And also no, they cant 1v2 generic FU paladin and win, thats just not correct.
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Welp, I was 100% convinced to have seen it in action, (I guess I have no excuse 11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoaEe6qjVBk). However, it can take on 2 Byzantine Paladins 1 after the other, which is quite impressive (2 Champions can’t), and even better, it can 1v2 generic FU cavaliers. A Malay Elite Elephant pre-nerf couldn’t achieve the same, even tho they are way more used. So still dunno about the champion speed.
But why would a byzantine goes for Paladins against a Teuton instead of the Cataphract, if this one spam Teutonic Knights, and will have no threat with archers (by the lack of Bracer) ? I think it’s a too unrealistic matchup.
The Teutonic Knight has indeed amazing stats for a pretty cheap cost, but their speed is making them way more used against a specific type of situation, which is unlike the idea of a Unique Unit, in my opinion.
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Teutons get Hand canoneers, and those are pretty mean to Cataphracts. So a Byzantine player would just go arbs. It’s more to illustrate the strenght of the TK and why buffing its speed to the point of being as fast as a champion might be too much (ie. an intermediate buff might be just fine!) Also, the Cavalier matchup is realistic.
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Could be possible to make them slighty less or equally faster than a militia-line unit but reducing their pierce armor (i mean, they lack a shield (?))? That way they would still be vulnerable to archer fire like the Boyard.
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You’re right bro. Teutonic Knights must move faster. Please developers of AOE 2 give attention
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The problem is speed, many professional players have said this. The Teutonic Knight could change to 0.8. Villager speed = 0.8, currently Teutonic Knight speed = 0.7.
TK’s big purpose in my opinion is to protect their siege, which they are really good at. Think about it, if you have Siege Onagers, what’s their weakness? Melee units, mostly cavalry but could also be fast infantry like Eagle Warriors. That’s what TK’s are so good at. Making them stronger against archers, or faster, would really make them OP. They also create very quickly so they’re excellent for defending trebs you have at the base of your castle. Your siege moves slowly so they work well together.
They don’t need to be changed.
I’m just copypasting what I wrote in my old post
Lalala I can’t reply the same that U wroteon the other post
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Welp, the Boyar is another super rare UU
Teutons already have Ironclad or more armored halbs to keep their siege safe without such an expensive escort. Using TK’s in that way is just wasting resources that could be better spent on Halbs, or on Knights or Scouts that are actually able to do more than just stand there looking cool.
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What TK’s NEED is a way to force players to engage them. Right now, it’s far too easy to just ignore them completely for a few minutes while you build some archers and then come back and wipe them out. And once that happens, if the TK’s are out of position in any way whatsoever, they’re a guaranteed loss, with virtually no way to escape. That risk makes them a terrible investment even if they were twice as powerful.
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Personally, I would like to see TK’s able to build walls and towers. This solves both problems; if you’re running away, you can build some walls to allow them to run away; if you’re attacking, you can build an offensive tower and actually use the Crenelations bonus for once.
And it means that enemy players can’t afford to just ignore them for long. Leave them be and soon enough you’ll have a few teuton towers there giving them a MUCH stronger degree of map control.
But on the flipside, it would be a costly and potentially risky investment, so you’d need to know the game well to do it properly. If you over-fortify with TK’s only for them to come in with BBCs before you can build a castle too, you’ve just wasted resources for nothing. And if you DO build a castle, you’ve invested a tremendous amount into one spot; it had better be worth it.
Most importantly, it adds a complexity to the civ that just hasn’t really existed before, and I would really like that. Plus giving a real distinction between TK’s and Champs; with their new higher armor, there’s less reason than ever to build TK’s when Champs can do the same job more or less as well, while being faster and less risky.
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Another option I’ve heard, however, is giving them a much larger building damage bonus, which could work as well. They’re already basically an anti-melee siege unit; by allowing them to take down buildings faster, it forces enemy players to engage them. As-is, they cost twice as much as a Champion, but per resources only do about 2/3rds as much damage against buildings as the champions after Arson.
You could give them an additional 10 anti building damage, bringing them to 14 per hit, and they still wouldn’t do as much against buildings as two champions do.
Allowing any unit other than villagers to construct buildings would be absolute insanity, there is no way whatsoever the devs should or would allow that.
It’s really difficult to balance TK’s because they have such powerful stats and they’re very niche. Doesn’t mean they’re useless and it doesn’t mean they need a large buff. If anything, I think a unique tech that increased their movement speed 10% or something would be appropriate.
TK’s are better at defending siege against fast infantry- woad raiders, berserkers, huskarls, eagle warriors, shotel warriors, karambits- all of those can move quickly enough to potentially avoid SO shots and unless you’ve mixed in a lot of heavy scorps those units will still be close enough to close the gap. Halbs are great vs cavalry but not against fast infantry, and TK’s annihilate those infantry.
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TKs are actually quite bad at defending siege, simply because you can outrun them so easily. It’s simply not worth it to tech up TKs, if you can have halbs, that protect siege way better (even more after they gained 1 more melee armor with the latest patch), which move 40% faster and dont cost gold. If you want something anti infantry you can go champs, which cost half as much as TKs and move way faster and are easier to mass. If you really flood in gold you won’t go for TKs, because you can use BBTs to hold ground, produce flexible Paladins or simply make more siege. If there is a spot for TKs, its extremly, extremly small, if not even non existent. After the newest patch even vs goths teut won’t make TKs anymore, but rather champs. The literally only thing TKs are good at is looking well.
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I used to put TK inside Rams. But never tested it online though.
Would that be a good use for them?
Take them out to kill anything that goes near rams.
Also putting 4 of them inside castles and taking them out to kill any rams near it seems like a good use.
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It would be a good use. The problem is that it is the only one
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Yeah, I always saw TK as just a sort of human “death wall” used to zone out basically any melee unit from some place(except the Byzantine Catas and maybe samurais?) Much best suited for defense than offense.
Useful to protect your eco or chokepoints against melee, and then put some skirms around to protect the Tks against arrowfire.
But then again there are the onagers(I hate those) that can counter them heavily, but then again onagers are very dangerous for any melee unit.
In conclusion I think the best use for TK’s is to train just a few of them and use them to “mark a zone” where melee units will have to think twice before trying to go in and take the territory.
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