Improve trash units of Turks


• Pikeman upgrade available

• Scout line also have +1 melee armor

• Javelin Thrower (mounted skirmisher)


Could Javelin Thrower be made to fit another role than skirmisher? Genitour already fits mounted skirmisher role(anti-archer) as a UU and Turks can potentially train them in team games - might be better if bonus was tailored towards some other unit type to counter, maybe more bonus vs. spearman and less pierce armor

No opinion on rest of suggestion I do not play Turks very much

turks dont need trash units.

they need siege engineers or imperial bbc.

and gunpowder units in general should be better.


First, Turks already survided since 1999 WITHOUT Pikeman and Elite Skirmisher, still they struggled a lot vs archers and finally that was fixed with the new bonus, that’s it.

So basically take away the Silk Armor technology further.

That’s already the second Berber UU, if you make it available to them, then you need to rebalance the unit to all middle eastern civs.

What? Turks do not need 3 massive buffs at once. Also their bad trash is what they are balanced around and it makes them unique.

If they ever need to be buffed it should enhance their unique attributes, like the recent buff to make their light cavalry line even stronger.

Your justifications are weak and you don’t even mention game balance. Historical accuracy is nice where possible but we cannot balance the game around historical power or the Turks would just annihilate everyone 11


maybe sipahi could give hussars +20 hp too? or have an upgrade for the hussar (not for free)


Turks already have Free Light Cav and Hussar, with extra Pierce Armour, they do not need any more Trash units.

In fact, Turks do not need anything else, as it is. They already are supposed to win in the Castle Age, on the back of Janissaries (the strongest Castle Age UU) and Mangonels, alongside Arrow-proof Light Cavalry.

Actually, no.

The Spanish would demolish the Turks on Land, and the Portuguese would annihilate them on Water, if the game was historically accurate.
It would not even be a contest, Turks would auto-lose in the Imperial Age. They would only win against Byzantines and a few Eastern Europe civs, even Teutons would stop them dead in their tracks.

Ottomans got humiliated time and again, in real life, which is why they became the “sick man of Europe” later on.
They could not beat Tercios, or Caravels, and their technological edge quickly vanished, as they actually started trailing behind by the 15th century.

Genitours are not from the Middle East, they are Iberian, so no.

Ottomans where the strongest power in the Western World at the end of the AoE2 time frame. They only declined a few centuries later. Spain declined before them.
The “sick man” was in late AoE3 time frame.
It’s like saying the Chinese are weak in the Middle Ages because they lost the Opium Wars.


No, they were not, the Spanish were.
Every time they fough the Ottoman, even when the Spanish lost, the losses on the Ottoman side were vastly larger than the Spanish losses.

Portugal also completely destroyed the Ottoman navy in the Indian Ocean.

A few battles:

As you can see, all of these are in the AoE2 timeframe, and all of them won by the Portuguese, most with vastly inferior numbers.

The Ottomans were only a power against Eastern Europe, they had nothing on the West.


Ottos could never really compete with proper centralized European nations, which is why the Russians came close to completely destroying them, several times, and the Ottoman only remained because of French and British intervention.

Agreed. Turks are a trash civ.

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Those are fights at the edges of the Ottoman Empire and the Ottomans where more support than main force in those.
There was never a real direct Ottoman-Spanish war because of the distance.

European powers barely managed to defend themselves against the Ottomans and it took centuries for them to actually take the fight to them.
While at the same time they conquered most of Northern Africa and fought the Persians.
Around 1600 they were one of the strongest powers in Europe if not the strongest. The cultural and religious differences made it harder for them to gain allies in Europe. They allied with France a few times though.


No, that was just Eastern Europe.

I already presented you several battles. The Ottos lost badly.
They could not even break Vienna, at a time in which the HRE was heavily fragmented and full on internal turmoil.

Ottos are greatly overestimated. Even the Kings and Generals channel on Youtube, which is very Turk-centric, has several videos where they come to the same conclusion. The Ottoman burned through Eastern Europe because it was less advanced and centralized than Western Europe. They failed to overcome teh Western powers, and how fast the West could revolutionize warfare completely, with new tactics and weapons.

If there would be, Spain would win. The Spanish really had the best army in the Late Middle Ages and Renaissance, forged out of centuries fighting the Moors and other Iberians, constantly, and a huge amount of technological modernization.

The Ottomans would be outclassed in every department, except numerical advantage.
And as we know, Turks often lose at sieges.

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No, Turks are a strong civ, they win in the Castle Age.

They are “for pros only” civ, however, in a competitive environment.

Do you know 3 kings war?Portuguese destroyed and 60 years under Spanish control,Ottoman won in Morocco in 1578.
Battle of Alcácer Quibir - Wikipedia

No they lose, because no trash units to counter crossbowman, 2 knights and all the light cavs are dead, no economy bonus.

In Morocco, but that was only one battle in which Ports fought 1 vs 2, and still the Ottomans lost India.

Portuguese always did poorly on offensive land battles, but mostly won at Sea, or in a defensive position, even when outnumbered.

Also, the Spanish beat the heck out of the Ottomans in North Africa, afterwards.

Light cavalry with +1 Pierce Armour, and upgrade for free.

Also, Jans outrange Crossbowmen even with Bodkin Arrow, not to mention Turks get Knights.

Janis die to Crossbows all day, Light Cavs are trash if you have 4 Pikeman or 2 Knights.

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They do not, they murder Crossbowmen, and you still have a Gold gather bonus, which is conducive to Knights and Magonels, both of which counter the Crossbowmen.

Turks have all the tools they need.
They are just difficult to play.