The so called “experts” - in this case probly nili/viper/tatoh etc. mostly only care about 1v1s. I bet they were against having an ingame score, but they only most likely thought out their very specific 1v1 competitive game. In TGs it’s impossible to keep track who is doing how, there a score is heavily needed, and actually the majority of aoe2 games are TGs, so it’s certainly relevant. Maybe top10 players can compensate it, but 99% of the playerbase can’t, for them it’s a downgrade to not have a ruff estimate how the other side/you pkt/your flank is doing. For many casual players this can also be said in 1v1.
Why do the top10 experts not like score? In general because it tells you (at least in aoe2) when someone clicks to the next age and when the enemy makes militias in darkage. This is also the real “free information” that some players complain about and yes it can be avoided without completly removing the score. All it needs is to remove a scoredrop for placing a landmark, since making darkage spears isn’t really a thing in aoe4 and it is very, very easy to scout.
TLDR: Since the idea behind aoe4 is to take the best from all previous games and improve it, why not take score into aoe4, improve it by removing scoredrops that tell when someone is up and keep that ruff estimate that helps keeping an overview for 99% of the players in TG.
I agree it’s better without it. For single player, unranked, and private games with friends, though, it might be nice to have it so you can toggle it on. Seeing how far behind your teammates are in unranked games (in relation to you and/or enemies) can be nice to know if they maybe need resources or military. Score can also help a new player vs. AI to know how much better they ‘could’ be doing with more practice. But especially for ranked games, I’m glad scores are removed
In offline play sure I’d accept score toggling. But I still dont understand why teamgames are the constant argument when not only is the score unreliable, but also there is text chat, and new to AoE4, there will be voice comms. Beating a dead horse with this topic, but i genuinely dont understand why you cant either A. Talk to your teammates, or B. Look around at the map, allies have shared vision.
Is this confirmed somewhere? I heard that evidence of the possibility were found in game files (which is not a confirmation), but is it confirmed now?
In general, score reveals quite a bit. The look of a teammate’s town may or may not be symbolic of their actual health. I genuinely am not sure if you’re for or against showing scores (sorry), so will hold off saying more Like you say, too, it’s been discussed so much I doubt I’d have anything new to add
Ah this is a good point, I’d forgotten that the game files were where that info was found. No, as far as I know this hasn’t been confirmed, but its obviously something the devs have been toying with, and something thats been asked for in previous games, so I guess we can only hope.
-score is here to give a ruff estimate. It is reliable in the sense of saying how good your team is doing. You can’t overview this at all cases in TGs, it is not possible. For this case the score is in fact very reliable. It tells you if you are completly dominating, are ahead, have an even game, are in disadvantage or the game is lost.
-ppl don’t talk, they won’t always say you how they are doing, if they added eco, how much they killed. I can tell you from thousands of TGs with randoms that writing is a good idea in general, but in practice it is completly luck based.
-voice comms will be very yikes… can’t imagine that will become a real thing, but open for surprises. Still the previous argument is valid here as well: ppl don’t talk => no overview what’s happening
If there is a score then it should be at very least in ranked TG, ideally in all game. There is no point on having a score that’s tournable on for unranked games, then you split up the player base.
I don’t really care about having a score or not but since it’s so discussed on the forum i would have some suggestions (don’t know how viable they are) to add in game without “giving information”:
1: Having a rank but not point based, only to show the positions of the players (first, second…)
2: Having a point based score but not in real time, maybe a 30 sec delay score would tell if you are behind enough to surrender and at the same time would not be a readable rank since it’s not in real time.
3 : Having a point based score updated each 1 minute or less, would not tell the info in real time too and would be enough to know who is leading on each “tick”.
Basically my positive view for the rank system is to know on team games if i am ahead or not and to know if i am being crushed at some point of the game and not waste time playing, my negative view is the information given, for example, changing age or all win situations, the systems above could solve some of these problems. if I were to choose i would choose the third possibility. What do you guys think?
However why should experts decide how even our offline experience should be like vs the A.I.
As much as I can get there being some issues with the score in competitive matches, most people do not play those
Custom game options are different than ranked games. You can have all kinds of options/mods including cheats so why not score. I agree it can be a useful training tool.
If it was that obvious to add score for competitive games: (1) it would already be in; (2) there would be gigantic and numerous threads heavily in favour of adding it back in; & (3) strong points would be made without resorting to some childish comments (not everyone).
I think the emphasis on scouting is much better for the game, which was probably taken into account when not adding score and designing the scouts. Shifting more towards map awareness and not score awareness. It is impossible to witness all things everywhere on the map, but with the very easy scouting (people in favour of score keep mentioning), more map awareness is achievable. Arguably this is a much more attractive part of the skill ceiling than “my flank has low score I better leave the game”.
The team games seem to function just fine and hopefully they can implement a good automatch system (learning from the past fingers crossed).
Maybe communications in high level games will also improve with new functions (better pings and not so much voice?), we will just have to see how it plays out. There is no need for doomsday predictions.
PS: most importantly it rewards mastery of other elements of the game which people take for granted in score being visible. Scout for relative strength not eyeball it.
For ‘Accessibility’ reasons it’d be helpful, and maybe there will be. Do we have confirmation that the released game won’t? We don’t need one by default, but it could be an Accessibility option
I proposed long ago ways to provide visual indications for attacks, as an Accessibility option. The same could be used for scout’s whistling in AoE4. Similar to what FPS games do by having the border/edge of your viewport briefly highlight in red (or some color) to show the direction of whistle.
Other ways I’ve mentioned in years past for Accessibility reasons, and/or to reduce the # of times the loud and incessant battle-horn/-alarm sounds in AoE2: an icon in corner that pulses red for a moment. Or a thin red line that displays along the top-border of the lower UI panel. Some subtle visual cue, yet noticeable and not in-your-face.