After the soo many nerfs that received I feel the unit was a bit overnerfed, just because Khmer was soo OP long time ago all other eles shouldn’t be punished like that, doing numbers:
In castle age:
- Burmese, Malay and Vietnamese do 3,5 damage (before nerf was 7 damage).
- Khmer do 4,25 (8,5 before nerf, and that value is currently done by the castle age war elephant).
Those values feel a bit too low now, even vs knights (unit that should be defeated cost effectively) isn’t that good. Castle Age War elephant do the same trample damage as Khmer battle ele before nerf.
In Imperial Age for Elite Battle Elephant:
- Burmese and Malay do 4,5 (before DE was 10, and before trample damage nerf was 9).
- Khmer do 5,25 (Before DE was 11,5, and before trample damage nerf was 10,5, I can understand why in DE the attack was reduced to 14, was wayy too good).
- Vietnamese do 4 lol (Before DE was 9, and before trample damage nerf was 8), such value is even lower than castle age Khmer battle elephant with tusks swords, is pathetic, just pathetic.
In comparison Elite War Elephant do a massive one of 12.
My suggestion is, increase the trample damage from 25% to 33% (to mirror Lechitic Legacy effect), it should be a notable improvement for the unit, here the numbers:
In Castle Age
- Burmese, Malay, and Vietnamese will do 4,62.
- Khmer will do 5,61.
In Imperial Age for Elite one:
- Burmese and Malay will do 5,94.
- Khmer will do 6,93.
- Vietnamese will do 5,28.
Compared to the current numbers, the ones of the proposed buff should be quite better and could bring the battle elephant unit back to see more mainstream action, and that shouldn’t be an issue for Khmer as they are currently balanced now, Vietnamese ones need ASAP that.
7 Likes
I mean sure, but how does this increase their viability?
It only makes them stronger where they’re already strong, the post-Imp closed map kinda of situation.
An Increase to their bonus damage vs. Buildings would help much more, or even decreasing their training time slightly, or lastly, giving them extra line of sight, which makes sense since the rider is so much taller than a horse rider- it would help them quite nicely vs. Monks.
7 Likes
Elephants should be stronger than the Knight line, they often feel akward in that aspect.
But that was reduced because battle eles could snowball too easily a town, pre nerf 5 eles could destroy a TC, with Khmer was even worse since they moved 15% faster+ Tusks Swords was cheaper.
Could work too but not much practical (Monks have alone 9 base range).
I wouldn’t underestimate the power of line of sight. I think train time, sight, and trample damage are all candidates.
Battle elephant has 5 LOS vs Monks have 11 LOS.
So is clear extra LOS isn’t that worthy.
Also for the training time, they already train faster than the Knight line (30 seconds vs 24 seconds). Battle elephants also are trained from stables, faster TT means massed faster, is OP.
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Being able to see stuff from further away is really helpful though. Compare Frank Knights LoS to regular Knights.
Isn’t bad but isn’t the most useful feature I mean I don’t think people pick Franks just to grant +2 LOS for others, so Magyars and Tatars TBs too. the Mongol one is the whole exception as it applies since dark age and grants lots of info to you.
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Agree, but I’ll also propose increasing their speed a bit, they should at least be able to catch up with the villagers
It’s funny how they fall chasing the air before they die
I’m even willing to give them more attack and speed in exchange for making them worse against monks
The biggest disadvantage of the Eles is their enormous cost, which is why the best (perhaps the only ones) are those from Malay
A speed increase is OP for khmer (before nerf they could outrun crossbows without husbandry, which was broken in TG).
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They are already good there, wouldnt it be a better idea to buff them to be actually useful in nornal games since TGs is an unbalanced mess which makes almost every civ onedimensional?
I’d love to see a buff that makes Castle age elephants viable, at least some of the time.
Increasing the trample damage isn’t the best in that respect, in fact the only option I’d consider ideal is a complete rework of all elephant units, but it’s better than nothing.
Yeah I agree. I think that they reduced the trample damage for elephant now enables to finally make something of this unit except this very situational usage.
I always promoted to give Elephants a “speed charge”. Meaning when it is ordered to attack an enemy unit, the speed of the ele is increased by a huge margin for 5-10 seconds after which it takes 30-50 secs to reload that ability.
This would possibly enable some unique elephant micro and especially make them more viable for high ranked players. Cause at low elo the unit is already quite strong, as people there don’t know how to handle an elephant push.
Increasing the trample damage again would just cement the unit in it’s current state.
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Your idea doesnt fit AoE2
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Reducing the pikeman bonus against them (25>12), but increase the scorpion bonus vs Eles (6>12).
Add Gunpowder units a litle bonus against Eles too
Why? We already have attack charge in the coustilier.
And imo the coustilier charge is way more problematic than a possible speed charge for eles, as it defies counter mechanics. coustiler just overrun counters that don’t have the numbers yet. That wouldn’t be the case with a speed charge for eles.
The attack charge was already weird enough, but your idea just feels like an AoE4 special ability you use a button for while the Coustillier in practice just feel like a unit with a very slow attack rate and a massive attack. Also in general generic units dont have gimmicks like that, leave that for the weird UUs
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No that’s actually exactly what I don’t want. No button. It’s just a passive ability that becomes activated automatically when you order to attack.
How do you even come to the association of a button? I clearly described it in a way it can’t be confused with that.
And btw monk juice is actually also nothing different than this…
Monks are meant to be the exception, not the rule, and it also fits the unit thematically to have it convert other units even if its corny as hell.
Military units shouldnt be compared to monks
It feels like that either way. It would probably also be super clunky to use
Maybe we should just nerf their pierce armour and make eles move faster.
That would just make them more knight-like.
Believe me, I considered all different type of pure stat-changes to the unit, but all of them would just make it OP on certain levels or situations/maps or pull it just closer to other already existing units like the knight.
We won’t get a clearly separable elephant unit that doesn’t breaks the game with pure stat changes, it’s just how it is.
Actually 50% trample dmg is problematic for Khmer elephant but not for burmese, viet, malay. Even revert back to 50% by introducing a generic tech, this will hardly be an issue.