again new post for india in late game … devs please hear just add church for india and 1 factory for canhons
I have been thinking about ways to improve India for late game treaty without being too drastic.
Maybe give Karni Mata another unlockable 5% boost in 5th age.
After unlocking the two great bombards from the ottoman consulate. You can buy these units from the Charminar gate such that you can have only 2 on the field at a time.
It really all depends on how you balance your economy and map spawn as to which resource gets there first. I generally do not have that many vils on food,
its nice to make use of those crates which I rarely do, mainly because I would rather have an extra cannon oor unit shipment possibility later on.
Early on 5% eco when you have so few vils does not really amount to that much, its important not to underestimate the stack of saving wood on so many buildings that will slow ones progression down, from houses, to sacred fields, to it all. It would just be nice if Ports had one useful tech for TR.
Urumis do not need to be massed. 1 batch of urumi can completely turn the tide of a battle.
That is the reason why they only buff they need is something to deliver Urumi shipments faster. They are they key to Indian Power that is missing from TR. With them they won’t need cannons and can be true to the civ itself.
its good dutch has some extra eco, they were a bit too far lacking, but I can see how this is a delicate balance for them.
In RE I played India most of the time and got to major rank with them and that is not laming Andes all the time. I actually do not like that map as much. If you play India like India and not like a Euro civ it works.
Sounds too OP,
I would just use that factory on wood, save my wood shipments for more urumi. It would take too long and be too risky to have cannon coming across the map from a Fact.
it would give you instant Elephants too I think, or faster training than cav which is extremely OP.
And with India being the fastest barracks builder needs slower inf train time.
It has to be changed to boost over final stats instead base gather rates. Right now its 10% (15% in imperial with your idea) is ridicoulous cause other civs have economic theory that boost the full map from age I and have 2 factories that can produce every resource.
With your idea that upgrade should be stronger.
Here you are supporting my point. 9 urumis cant do much vs 50 halberdiers for a reason, numbers.
Agree, but they need a bit boost that can be added in form of an upgrade in the Victory tower or Charmin Gate as Japanese have in the Golden Pavillion.
Having 4 canons at the beggining of the battle plus peacetime with mahouts is not a valid strategy in treaty cause you cant get more canons later and treaty games are longer than 5 minutes.
Mahouts arent effective with that pathfinding, camels are made of paper (zamburaks are fine but sowars should have more attack or HP).
Siege elephants could be better taking down walls if they wouldnt attack infantry units that are in the gates (as howitzers do). They need a micro that europeans dont.
If you want play ‘as Indian’ you have to kill villagers to train eles becoming your economy worse and unsustainable. Giving them an eco boost wont become them OP.
You would be surprised how effective 9 urumi are vs 50 halbs for the pop space. Especially for how they may enter the battle as in a trickle/ line, or all in a group. Take the same pop, 18 with cannons, or any counter unit, and 50 dutch halbs will walk over them, and they break the ranks of ryuters well too. Make it fair with 9 urumi, plus 32 sepoy or gurka behind them.
That forces Dutch to go heavy on Hand cav which then helps to drain their food.
I support that Urumi need to arrive faster and that the best buff for India would be to get them to make them faster since everything is relying so slowly. (you seem to support neglecting urumi all together) That would make India fight like India was designed as a strong melee civ, and not change things too much that would make them over powered. Adding fast trains and factories and cannon, will just unbalance everything.
Yes you can call upon more consulate armies, and if you rely on them instead of urumi should set the consulate to gather faster. I really do not even bother to use the cannon shipments after TR ends except as a base defense if I my army is out of base and need to defend it, i can call upon that army and have the cannons nicely protecting my walls. Or save them until both of our ecos are being worn out, then I change my strategy to cannons, gurka and howdas and have a bunch of shipments lined up to change tactics.
To my understanding no one uses Mahouts in DE anymore as they buffed the flail eles to actually give out more DMG per pop space and are really strong with 50% resist. I have seen them used and its laughable and needs to be fixed. Does not give me much faith in the devs to make changes that actually make sense.
Mahout pathing could be made to be better with less obstructions as long as it looked good. they have problems but are actually really good units when everything works out.
deleting vils is a strong tactic with India, it works if you are good at micro and use the advantage of strong units to get good kill ratios. if you have a couple extra elephants that really makes it hard for the other guy to counter as they have to focus all their fire on them and thats just leaving all the sepoy and gurka and tigers to do their work.
They should never have removed the true bonus of the Karni mata to work on base stats.
Slow training infantry and no real access to canons means cheesing with heavy melee infantry with a little canon support is the ideal and skill less counter to India. Spain fares especially well with this cheesing tactic as they can boost their heavy infantry with unction and the Indian player has no real answers.
If the devs don’t want to give India access to proper artillery and dont want to give India any lategame eco buffs and don’t want to buff the training times of India’s infantry maybe they should consider royal green jackets multiplier against heavy infantry to be increased by 2.0 instead of 1.0.
Urumi. India answers heavy infantry with Urumi, which just rip right through them about as fast as cannon do.
Again the time it takes for them to be shipped means your front line is already wrecked and the opponent already has a couple of cannons waiting to greet them.
You cant have them in the battlefield at time, or they are dead too fast compared the time wasted until their arrival (cant mass)
Which is why the appropriate buff to india is decreasing the time for their infinite shipments.
They are very good to use even while training slow once you learn how to fight with India. and having some mahouts with them, and tiger.
18 pop is enough of a counter for this unit type without being too OP and having a balanced army. If they should be trained that is most of what people would be making because they are just that strong.
India is a melee civ, and thus should be buffed in that manner,
Shortened Urumi arrival time, maybe the one urumi card also unlocks the mansabar (i still wouldn’t use it), and tweak mahout pathing,
Well if India is a melee civ as you say why not make the urumi a trainable unit then instead of relying on shipments which would mean their production is blocking out the very vital shipments of late game wood for India or having shipments available in the first place when you need them.
because a single urumi does more dps to heavy infantry than a falconet. they need to be limited, just like spahi (equally strong unit per pop). India needs very little, and i detailed my full thoughts above. I extensively play india in the lategame and its very strong in the right hands but its still very vulnerable to strong artillery. I should specify- I think one reason artillery is so obnoxious is largely because it takes so long to replenish those troops that are lost to a big volley. My list sums it up though
Yeah no. Since Urumi are hard countered by both cavalry and artillery they are not nearly as effective as you make them out to be. The cherry on top of the proverbial cake is that they lack a ranged attack and are slow both to arrive on the battlefield and block your only source of late game wood which India again desperately needs for buildings as their infantry trains so slowly.
you act like i’ve never played the game before. Of course its not the same immediate effectiveness as an artillery piece, but they absolutely demolish infantry for so little pop space. You don’t need that much wood lategame, you have both trickles ticking away infinitely. If you’re needing 1300w back to back idk what you’re doing with your buildings. Maybe here and there yeah. Also it takes a lot of cav to take down urumi, cannon are obviously a threat but heavy cav is almost a joke against india’s compositions. Urumi are incredible units, I dare even say the very best skirm type infantry. If they were trainable they’d have to get the nerf hammer so hard its not even funny
Urumi are nothing more than glorified light infantry with no ranged attack and horribly slow on top of that. And sure nerf them to hell but give us access to them when we need them.
A good solution today is much better than a perfect one tomorrow.
Arguing against what is objectively an excellent unit only works if you know how to play the civ. You’ve got multiple people here who are all high elo and veterans with India telling you that Urumi are enough and that they are ridiculously strong into heavy infantry… if you use them right.
Clearly, you are not.
Sure by all means show me these multiple high elo India players. Maybe they are in the top 10 ranking in treaty. No. Well maybe top 50 then right?
Again ignoring this hyperbole if India is a melee civ why are there central melee units hidden behind a deck that’s like saying the French being a cavalry civ should have the Cuirassier be hidden behind a deck too.
I find people over value coin in the furtrade and in doing so under value wood. A good nest egg of wood should be really important to an India boom. India can survive being a little starved of coin, or even food and it can bounce back, but being deficient on wood is a game ender for them. It is playing with a howda/ gurka, cannon combo that really drains the coin. When one is mostly training sepoy and some siege eles mixing with mahouts and food units like tiger and urumi that they coin last a long time.
India is a melee civ not just because of urumi, those units just compliment all their other melee units for a great synergy.
20 tiger is like having 10 hussars on the battle field all the time.
Sepoy are on of the best anti cav muskets in melee mode.
Even howdas can trash other cav in melee
But it is the synergy of mahouts with Urumi that really defines with. Mahouts easily get over whelmed alone or even with tigers, but when paired with urumi, they counter the counter to Mahouts and really let them break through the front lines and get to the skirms in the back, which then sets the enemy running to walls.
You of course need some siege eles to micro down the cannon.
It takes care ful timing and planning, but with a faster shipment urumi could help over pop india giving it strong waves of attack when qued at 199 pop. instead of by the time they arrive they are down below that. That would be a huge buff to have them arrive as fast as Chinese flying crow, maybe super OP.
Please note: Karni bonus needs to be reverted, mahouts pathing fixed, and not make flail elephants better than mahouts should be looked at too. If one is only needing to train flails and not mahouts much less wood is needed but it is a silly thing that they have done to this game. (I understand wanting to make flails better, but that was not the way)
Sepoys the best anticav?? What are ashigarus then?? I remember you that India couldnt do so much vs gendarmes spam on legacy.
About mahouts they should cost the same pop slots as Howdas. Goons and hussars cost the same so, I dont think that could be OP since mahouts arent that strong for their cost. (After age IV card for sup balance).
All are saying the same, urumis are strong, but India needs them on the battlefield amd right now its near impossible cause time spent from homecity. Same for mansabdars.