Indians Unique Units

Pointless topic, just like the overpowered civilization topic, took 4 days before anyone saw the problems to begin with, I’m done explaining in depth.

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Welp, you can excuse people to wait for more evidence before making up their mind

I’m still waiting an in-depth explanation of how the Mongol SL makes the civ OP and is better than knights, even tho it’s super hard to get them to beat Malay knights in the first place.

Persian have camels, yet they still get Halbs. Same for Cuman and Byzantines. Also, Camels don’t counter elephants.

Well, I did make a suggestion for once

It makes the game more accurate without causing any hassle for the balance. That sounds better than completely reworking whole civs.

What’s the point of it?
The point of this discussion is to make Indians a less Camel focused civilization (as India isn’t a desert) while preserving the model by giving it to somebody else.
Rajputs live in all of North West India. Thar Desert is just one of their homes as is Punjab, Sindh or the Gangetic Planes.

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Indians already get [(Imperial Camel)]paid + [(Camel have +1 pierce armor) + (Camels have +6 attack against buildings)]free
They have way too much Camel bonuses than Saracen Zealotry(paid)

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Would anyone be opposed to weakening Imperial Camels, and making it a regular upgrade, like Paladin or Siege Onager?

It could be available to Berbers, Sacarcans, Indians and Malians. I think that should cover it.

Indians should be an Elephants focused civilization to be represented properly:
MughalE
Mughal Armored Elephants
images (1)
Rajput Armored Elephants


Rajput Armour

Rajput Painting

Not a Camel Civilization, which is just awkward.

Sounds like a good idea but then the same should be done with Imperial Skirmishers(which civ can it be shared with?) and Indians will need some other slight civ bonuses to balance out.

Berbers already get genitour as their second unique unit, that’s why Saracens…

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It wouldn’t be unique though. It would be a regular upgrade. Like Halberdier.

Imperial Skirmishers as a general upgrade would be fine, but then you need a new team bonus for Vietnam.

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I might be taking a dead topic back, but I want to add to the… request?, idea? whatever… to make saracen the ultimate camel oriented civ by going through a whole redesingn of both indiands and saracen civs.
This is mainly because in my experience saracens suffers from the same problem as teutons do. They are right now not intresting to play. They’re not a strong civ, nor bad neither, It’s just i can’t find a reason to play with them. Aside from the archers attack bonus vs buildings and the market bonus, that only players who understand about deep economy management can exploit, there are no unique interactions or way to go that differentiate them from other civs, even more in land maps where they lose two of their bonuses (transport ships and galley). Even being myself a lover of arab history and culture I don’t play with them just because I think i’m gonna get bored.

Now to the point. The change core will be giving saracens acces to the imperial camel upgrade (taking it out from indians) and no knight line (just as current indians). Along with a whole redesign of tech tree and civ bonuses the point would be to reflect their characteristic and almost sterotypical “desert people” aspect and the arab intense use of camel and light cavalry and little to no heavy cavalry in battles (this is I think, because their different approach of cavalry in warfare in contrast with the european charge and shock cavalry). The market bonus can stay the same, since it talks about the key position of middle east people in trade routs, and mamluks are a pretty unique unique unit (forgive the repetition) that goes along with the camel and anti-cavalry orientation.
With the “only camels” civ niche occupied by saracens, indians can now be redesigned with a new and more proper focus and that way adress the community claim of giving indians battle elephant. Maybe it could be even made them focus only in north India, having a place for a hypothethical tamils civ.

Now a final disclaimer and conclusion. I know nothing about balance, I’m just about a 1100 elo half competitive half casual player who struggles to keep his tc with no idle time in dark age. That is why I dont go deep into details. And though I love the competitive aspect of the game and play every game trying to improve mechanics, strategies and so, I think the most important design direction is to provide a fun and enjoyable gaming experience while keeping its competitive aspects. That’s why in my opinion this whole saracen-indian rework is a good step in providing the historical inspiration (not accuracy) that made this game, along with its gameplay, so beloved.

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I would really like to see Saracens gain the camel traits. it will be so much more fitting. Saracens getting Imperial Camels and Camel bonuses but no knight line sounds much more better thematically than Indians getting so many camel bonuses.

Indians in order to balance them can get some other average anti-cavalry unit. One of the ideas can be dandpatta warrior: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pata_(sword)
It can be an imperial upgrade to champions. It will give them a slight anti-cavalry bonus (so they will be a hybrid of swords and spears)

Even through im fine with Indians as they are besides the elephant Archer needing to be better, saracens should get another Camel Bonus. Personnally i think camels could be slightly better overall as well.
I would propose giving the heavy Camel +1attack for all civs as well as giving saracens camels Attack +15% faster.

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Here to talk about nerf for Indians.
Fishermen now only work 10% faster…Great u nerfed already very shituational bonus. If map generation has lots of shore fish , how is it the problem of civ? If map has lots of already built farms, will u nerf slavs, vikings and aztecs? if map has lots of hunt, will u nerf mong to 10% also?

Even if u save around 800-1000 food for 100 vills, what choices indians have for army? Just one unit which is too expensive to upgrade. Previously u nerfed indian camels by removing bonus melee armor and also removing arbalest. Camels for indians need to work like knights and they fail miserably at that too. Paladin is generic upgrade and they are better at everything because of better armor, imperial camels are unique unit for godsake! Just give imperial camel +1 melee and pierce armor.

Now don’t even get me started on the actual unique unit- The ELEPHANT ARCHER. They dont’t have range of archer, mobility of cav archer, attack of elephant and they are listed in 5 classes. This unit just has too many counters and they can’t evade as they have no mobility. They don’t work like front like tank or backline archer. Why are u guys so stubborn to make this unit viable? Just give ele archer +1 range on shatagni along with hand cannons.
No older civ has been nerfed that much.
What are ur thoughts on this?

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another thread about indians 11

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That was old post and patch. Need to create new post as devs are not listening 11

Indians have over 50% winrate. The nerf was well deserved, and they still have great Fishermen, now that they can deliver the Food at a Docks.

If you are smart and have good Micro, you can even deliver Boar, Deer and Berries at the Dock now.

Best Camels, FU Cav Archer and Skirmisher, FU Hussar, HC with + Range and BBC.

Indians have a very strong and wide open Tech Tree.

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??

This is available to everyone.

So does teut, byz and saracens. Wide tech tree doesn’t matter if u can’t make stronger units.

This. I bet there is an alternative timeline where they introduced the new dock mechanic while not nerfing Indians. Trust me people there are singing another song 11

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Yes, but Indian are the best at exploiting this new mechanic.

FU HCA, Shatagni HC, BBC and Imp Camels. And you only lack the last infantry armor for your trash units.

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