U are making farms and chopping wood whole game. U would be lucky to get 2 shore fish and u have to mill it too. Ur statement doesn’t even compare to celt and slavs bonus. Look at mong bonus, hunt is perishable and therefore has 40% bonus.
U might as well remove 10% fish bonus just for the sake of having bonus.
As u said whole game, fish is not even available half game 11. This bonus is like 10% faster gathering silver only silver dont’t exist in this game 11.
except shore fish is the fastest food method there is. so making it faster, means that on maps where you actually get shore fish, they are borderline op.
that’s why I said remove this bonus completely and replace it with fish carrying more. It won’t make them OP on shore fish maps. What do u say?
they get a boost when there is a fish source, when they have viliger disscount also for normal play
This will make them viable on both fish abundant and low fish map.
Problem
- Elephant archers lack mobility and dont do enough damage per second to justify making them. To the pros, they are rarely every seen as a viable unit unless the indian player is way ahead. They feel like Persian war elephants.
- With the recent nerf to Indian fisherman, I’m afraid we will see much less of them in the pro scene in the future. They only get picked on shore fish friendly maps.
Proposed solution
- allow elephant archers to fire while they move. They will help their mobility problem and make them viable for late game eco raiding in small numbers. This will also set them up for interesting micro and give them a chance to trade efficiently in the hands of a pro.
- give indians access to battle elephants as a concession to the fisherman nerf
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Do you read the patch notes? The fisherman nerf was because you can now drop off food at docks.
A unit that moves and shoots at the same time will be op. Plain and simple. Already explained this elsewhere so can’t be bothered to explain it all over again.
E: the EA rate of fire could be increased.
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The Indians nerf was because they can drop off at docks now.
You don’t turn around and augment a necessary nerf with an unnecessary buff.
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Continuing the discussion about the civs that needs some balance, the indians are actually pretty much fine, they have a good tech tree (lack the knight, but even if the camels doesn’t fully compensate, it’s the only way to balance it), good eco bonus, but my complain is with their UU.
The Elephant Archer is a unit taken directly from AoE1, and adapted for AoE2, but if look at the 2 units, the EA of AoE2 is a lot worse that it’s counterpart (link to the stats below).
- It have so many flaw this unit:
- It take a lot to be massed from a castle.
- It have a high cost.
- It have a LOT of counters, from pikes and ES, to camels, to all siege, to monks, and even CA deal bonus damage vs them.
- It doesn’t shine either for HP (280 vs 250 of the BA and 450 of the WE, both units with better advantages) and low attack, even a CA have more RoF, and since the indians have FU HCA, I don’t see the point of making EA.
They don’t even supplement the lack of arbs, since arbs would have a greater damage output, and with all those counter and a ranged attack they aren’t that much of a meatshield (rams, camels and hussar can fill that role a lot better), they don’t counter a particoular units or have an innate resistance to some attack.
- So here it is my Ideas:
- Give them multy-arrows attack similar to Kipchaks, so to improve their attack and actually make them worth to be trained (they would be still different from Kipchaks or chukos).
- Buff a bit their anti-standard buildings attacks, so to give them a role and giving a reason to be preferred over the rams.
I get it that UU shouldn’t be the most powerful unit of a civ, neiter should be OP, but they need to fill a role. I would like to consistently see every UU in games, because they add more diversification, not for the look of course, but for the unique role that can cover thanks for it’s specs, and it’s this diversity to me is the real fun of AoE2.
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I read the patch notes and understand what they mean. Dropping food at docks actually makes indian less strong in comparison to all other civs, just like how adding supplies tech nerfs goths by giving everyone else cheap infantry. I’m interested in seeing what role Indians will now have on the pro scene. I doubt they will be picked often for fisherman friendly maps.
EA just feels like it has no role in the army. I hope they add some mechanic or balance it to worth making.
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The thing is that earlier with the bonus, the bonus wasn’t as good as it would now be because the villager spent so much time on walking, now it will potentially be spending less time on walking so the actual gathering bonus has a larger effect.
EA does need a buff indeed. Hopefully fiddling with its stats (like fire rate) or cost, instead of gimmicky mechanics.
I mean you could say that about a lot of things in the game too. Vikings. Chinese. Let’s not forget about all the missing civs who aren’t included that were around in the aoe2 timeline.
Also frankish throwing Axeman and Celtic woad raiders are pre dark age units. Should we remove those and replace them?
Aoe has never been a historical simulation.
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85 food and 70 gold for the same unit as current? Yeah I still wouldn’t invest into it
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you missed the part where i said
imagine if they received like half damage from skirmishers and pikes?
they aren’t supposed to be an anti archer. they fill a role right now to be more like a tank for the more flimsy archers behind them. best way to help that is to reduce damage they take.
As an Indian i don’t think Indian civilization in aoe2 looks Indians. Historically speaking what is Indians known for? Elephants and Archers.
India is all about Elephants. Our wars, our religious festivals( even to this day) is full of elephants. Elephants are like their sons and daughters to Indian families. Some times cruel things are done to wild elephants in India. Anyway that’s a different topic. My point is that Indians are obsessed with elephants. We were the first to use elephants exclusively. Even Alexander the great was afraid of Indian Battle elephants. So please, Indians deserve elephants more than any other civ.
Also India is known for archers. Our mythologies, history, childhood memories are all linked with archery. Even our gods have bows and arrows. Even against the British empire Indians mostly fought with Infantry and bows. So Please give arbalest to Indians.
Frankly speaking Indians does not deserve Imperial camels. Only 10 percent of Indian subcontinent was desert there only we use camels. Indian armies exclusively used knights. Not as heavily armored as European knights more like a tarkan i would say. Also Indians were not that good at hand cannoneers. The sultans like mughal sultans mainly used bombard towers and bombard canons rather than hand canoneers. They used cavalry and cavalry archers to gain upper hand against the native Indians. What the developers has done with Indian civ is that Indians are like An Arab-Turkish mix. We are friends with the arabs, we are more like brothers. But Indians are more like South East Asian nations, Like the Vietnamese or Burmese.
Also India is a land to great many religions like Budhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism etc. So It would be great if Indians got great monks like aztecs or saracens.
Remove Imperial camels and hand canoneers. Give Arbalest and Battle elephants to Indians. As elephant archer is useless, may be add a medium cavalry like tarkan as a unique unit. Devs we don’t want Indians to be an over powererd civilisation, But indians should be like Indians. Someone playing this game may think, “oh! Indians are like arabs, with camels and all”. No offense to arabs. But India has its own identity. Also Manipur is a state in India. Why would Burmese get a tech called Manipur cavalry. Someone must sue Microsoft for butchering Indians like this.
In the game, i would say vietnamese is the closest to an actual medeival Indian civilisation. Please make Indian civ in aoe2 llike Indians. It makes me sad to say this i never play as Indians in aoe2, it doesn’t feel like Indians.
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Thanks man. EA is useless.
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Please keep discussion on-topic and centered around the Indians unique units. If you would like to discuss the unique units of another civilization, please create another topic.
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I think that they’re actually not a bad unit, they just have a simple flaw.
First off, to show that they’re not actually a bad unit, observe the following scenario.
Firstly, we have a simple setup: 45 Hand Cannoneers vs 30 Mayan Arbalesters and 15 Elite Skirmishers.
Now, the results: The Mayans convincingly win, with very little contest.
Now, we make a modification: add three Elite Elephant Archers, but remove Twelve hand cannons. This is twice the resources as the cost of the elephants!
The clear purpose for Elephant Archers is to be a front-line tank. Their short range means they automatically take the front line and automatically tank a huge amount of enemy fire, almost like battering rams, except faster and healable by monks.
The problem? It’s simple. Their upgrade cost.
As you can see from my above example, even in combo huge numbers of other units, you’re not going to want more than a handful of Elephant Archers. But the upgrade from normal to elite elephant archers costs 1000 food and 800 gold! Even worse, this upgrade gives them just 50 health and 1 attack!
For this upgrade to be cost effective at its current cost/benefit, the player would need to plan on producing fifty-six elephant archers! That’s ridiculous, and completely contrary to their apparent purpose.
So my proposal is simple. Reduce the Elite Elephant Archer upgrade cost. Take it down to something like 300 food and 250 gold. Sure, it’s crazy low, but honestly not insanely low given you’re never going to be making more than a handful of them.
Because EAs are an anti-archer unit, by virtue of having both a lot of Pierce Armour, and a huge HP pool, specially for a ranged unit.
EAs are not bad, in fact, they are specially good against Mass Archers, which a lot of people complain about.
Exactly, but you will rather make Camel or Hussars for this role, because of efficiency.
They actually are not that expensive to upgrade, as far as Elite UU upgrades go.
Most Elite UU upgrades have the same issue, which is why UUs are usually rarely seen in Imperial Age armies, unless they are really spammable (Huskarl, Shotel Warrior) or really good (Mangudai, Longbowman).