Is Feitorias worth it?

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Worth

At the time being, this is the worth of the feitorias after the jan update:

imagen 1,5res/1TC (6res/4TC) [Old]

imagen 0,75res/1TC (3res/4TC) [New]

imagen 5,5 res (7,15 res if upgraded)

To end up with a factory worth trickle from TCs, you need 6, if you want the trickle of an upgraded factory, you need 8.

Fair enough for a card you can send at age 1.

Comparison

I don’t know about convertion rates, so take this with a grain of salt, but these are the numbers for the age 1 trickle rates:

(Keep in mind that by the time you hit 2nd age, the worth of Feitorias is up to 1,5 resources a sec, and most of the time, the card arrives by the time you age up)

imagen 1,2 res
imagen 1,65 coin
imagen 1,25 wood
imagen 1,5 food

Re-buff?

The card is as good as the rest of the age 1 trickle cards, it has the advantage of getting better the more TCs you have with the disadvantage of having to guard said Town centers for it to keep trickling.

So, it’s perfectly fair in comparison.

HOWEVER, do you guys use any of these cards? because it seems to be worth less than 3 settlers without pop space (and un-upgraded).

So the question would be… “how much is an un-upgraded settler that needs no pop space worth?”

The same question

imagen
imagen1493×192 9.86 KB

If you want to acquire the same amount of food from either trickles or settlers, it’s best to always go for settlers and pay the pop space; It is almost twice as expensive to gather with trickle rates than the settlers.

For it to be as worth as much as the 3 first age settlers, the card should trickle 2,4 food.

imagen

So… buff all trickle cards maybe?

imagen oh god, i better not have messed up the numbers…

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2

my point of view is that portugals eco is already average, and their units, esp in the lategame, are very strong. its not a faction that needed an extra factory.

in treaty portugal has pretty much for all its life been one of the best factions, the only negative the faction has in units is hussars but thats made up by having better art, skirmishers, musketeers and dragoons. most of its units are quiet food heavy and portugal has a strong food gather rate with the church card giving +20%, which by lategame when you have ca 50% of your villagers on mills far outweigh the loss of 5% in other resources.

3

I need to play it more to get a better impression but I currently think it is fine / still worth it.

Some remarks:

  • The “number of resources” is not a very good way to look at it because of the different gather rates (0.5w/s for wood, 0.84f/s for hunt, 0.6c/s for mines). It is better to convert in into an equivalent amount of wood/s. I here choose wood as resource because out of the tickles you mentioned, the wood one is the most commonly used, namely by the russians (also the indians, but the indians get a villager with it), and the russians got the same kind of eco bonus (“faster settlers”)
  • The amount of resources for this card (0.75/s) should be multiplied by 2 or 3 for a more fair comparison, because you do not stay long in age 1, and by the time you get you first shipment, you are already close to clicking up.
  • The portuguese “NEED” a weaker age 1 card compared to other civs because they start with +1 settler. If you want to buff this card again to make it as competitive as a 3 settlers card, we should remove the extra starting settler, which is overall not beneficial for the Portuguese.
  • in treaty with 5 TCs it should still be 33% to 50% of a factory, which still sounds nice as Portuguese still got the 2 factories. If we want to make this card in treaty as competitive as a factory, we should maybe remove a factory to avoid Portuguese having an oppressing economy (I think other europeans besides germans civs do not get a better eco than 99 settlers + 2 factories), and I wouldn’t want that.
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5

Hmm the card does seem a little overnerfed now, for a 1st card in sup I’m almost tempted to go back to using a 300res crate or economic theory. The numbers just seem too weak now and the card doesn’t pick up until you have at least 2 TCs, but before the numbers were a bit too strong so idk. I think the move might be to just buff colbertism to 1.7 and give it to ports xd

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  • I don’t think you should look at this card value expecting to only have 1 TC.
  • We could give colbertism to Portuguese without buffing the card (1.5f is a little more than 1.5 villagers with hunting dogs that still produce during raids, and add up to the extra settler that gathered resources already while helping your hunts lasting longer due to having 1.5 fewer settlers on them). I would be happy having another alternative first card as Portuguese. Then you can choose between a short term eco boost (colbertism) and a scaling one (Feitorias)
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7

It could be made a little better in exchange for Portugal losing their faster default hunting rate. Considering the Dutch got an entirely unique settler just because they gather coin faster, it would be more consistent to have the Portuguese settlers have the same gathering rates as everyone else.

Another approach could be to make Feitorias very lucrative and take away a starting settler and factory card to compensate.

2 Likes
8

Portugal needed the old version of feitorias, their civ bonus of extra tc’s is too hard to take advantage of otherwise, you just can’t maintain double vill production and not be vulnerable.
The card was worth like 2 villagers per tc IIRC so it was hardly oppressive, sure it was an age 1 card that by fortress was worth 6 villagers but only 6 unupgraded villagers and it wasn’t that strong to start, compare that to germans getting 4 villager equivalent in settler wagons which get buffed by techs or france getting 3.75 villager card in age 1.

It needed a slight nerf by perhaps removing the xp trickle or lowering it by 10% not just a straight 50% nerf. Portugal goes back to being an unplayed civ, back in the D tier with incas just because of this change.

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9

I say make the card strong, strong enough to at least equal a factory in the late game. In exchange for the removal of a factory card. I find the 2 factory card design boring and wish more civs would be like the Italians or Maltese where they have a themed economic card instead of that second factory
Feitorias is an excellent example of how that could be achieved since it plays so well into the design of the Portugese.

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10

I think it is better to have a civ overnerfed than overpowered, so I am happy if Ports are ‘back at the bottom’. Makes me want to play them again. The last thing anyone needs is seeing Ports (or any civ) all the time in ranked because they are OP. They still have the 3 organ gun card as well. I don’t see how anyone can say a 6 villager ‘trickle card’ is bad. Trickles are always better than villagers, who move around and get raided, garrison in TCs, etc. All of your villagers can be garrisoned and you still get trickle income. And for people who aren’t as good at efficient villager management, it makes an even greater difference.

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11

I don’t understand why do you want an age 1 card to be comparable to a factory. It is not like Portuguese doesn’t have factories. You should compare them to 3 vills cards from other civ. Or even 2 vills because Portuguese start with 1 more, and many other civs only send 2 vills at beginning.

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12

Nobody thought a 6v trickle by age 3 was bad, that’s what it used to be. Now it starts off as a 1v trickle and becomes 3v by fortress age.

13

Read you analysis and I definitively think this is the way to go. I would hate to see Feitoras buffed again individually before taking into account the considerations you expressed.

2 Likes
14

Ok thanks for the clarification. India has ‘distributism’, which my understanding is an age 2 five villagers on wood type of card, which seems very good.

15

Distributivism is worth 2.5 villagers on wood without any market upgrades, india do have an age 2 card called foreign logging IIRC which is a higher wood trickle.

2 Likes
16

Yo igual opino lo mismo, por ejemplo España en lugar de tener una segunda carta de fabrica podria tener una carta llamada “Quinto real” el cual hace que todos los virreinatos y capitanias generales del imperio Español paguen un impuesto a la corona, seria de 4ta edad y lo que haria seria que todos los edificios y unidades economicas den un ligero goteo de monedas (aldeanos 0,10 monedas por segundo, estancias 0,20 (limitadas a 5 ahora) por segundo molinos 0,20 por segundo (limitados a 5), pesquero 0,10 monedas por segundo, los mercados y corrales se veran afectados por la carta, pero su numero se vera limitado a 4 mercado 0,50 monedas por segundo y corrales 0,50 monedas por segundo (y tambien solo serian 4), las tavernas aumenta su limite de construcción en +2 y su goteo de monedas aumenta en 0,40 (dando una moneda por segundo) los 99 aldeanos equivaldrian a 9,9 monedas por segundo lo mismo los pesqueros, 1 moneda por segundo las 5 estancias, los molinos igual, los 4 mercados darian un total de 2 monedas por segundo y los corrales igual y las tavernas serian 3 monedas por segundo en total daria= 18.9 monedas por segundo. quizas suene roto pero la verdad no se (desconte a los pesqueros ya que dudo que en una partida hagas 99 pesqueros y 99 aldeanos xd) a cambio a los holandeses podrian hacer que la carta especulación de tulipanes les permitan crear +10 aldeanos adicionales

queria pensar en algo unico para España (por cierto la carta trattoria deberia poder permitir crear las tavernas para los italianos y a su vez mejorar el goteo de estas o darles también un goteo de comida)

17

pra mim não compensa e melhor pegar teoria econômica o 300 de madeira

18

also where thematic with portugal who were very slow to industrialize.

the problem is though that you can increase how many TC you have, 1 extra card and you can get like 4 extra which right of a sudden means 2 factories worth if we assume 5=1 factory.

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19

the point of the card is that it scales into lategame unlike 2 or 3 villagers who only really gives an early boost.

its more comparable to economic theory than to 3 villagers in how it works.

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20

I also thought it had to be compared to a 2/3 settlers card.

Fine then, can we then do the following ?

  • keep the current rates
  • allow the Feitoria tickles to benefit from villager gater rates (seen as a Mill/Estates for food and coin boost), twice as much if you want (like german settler wagons)
  • Give portuguese the food tickle

Then you get your scaling with ecotheory/royalminz/refrigetation/church, and I pick corbatism. When playing Portuguese I kind of dont care about the long term scaling and worry about the incoming rush and would like something more short to mid term focussed.

21

I think ports are fine as they are. Sure the stronger feitoria card was nicer and as I play ports a decent amount I liked it but since you can build a deck and if you play right can get 12 TC I get why they nerfed the card. It wasn’t making ports OP but I see the reason behind it.