Is Inca ever going to be fixed?

Inca is just gimmick upon gimmick and it destroys balance, fun, and realism. A lot of the themes and character of the civ could be implemented in much better ways.

Issues:

Kancha Houses

Houses that are mini factories are overall a very poor design. You need to build houses anyways so the cost for the extra production is tiny and provides unraidable income. Torps and Shrines are already terrible, but at least they actually consume resources or require hunts and come with a lower villager cap. At most, Kancha Houses should provide a Llama when built.

Dutch banks should be the template for resource generating buildings since they are balanced by having a large upfront cost and only serving one purpose. The Incas have a building that would be perfect for a role equivalent to a bank: Qullqas

Qullqas were storehouses of the Incan empire. They could generate mainly food, but have upgrades to generate all resources (Quipu would be a good name for an upgrade). They could possibly even have a much smaller generation rate but also provide a gather boost like granaries.

Kallanka

Garrisoning of military units should be limited to Strongholds only (Maori with their Pa would have made a much more interesting civ to give this mechanic to). It’s way too strong to have units able to hide from their counters and effortlessly avoid unfavorable fights.

Unit Speed

Super fast pikes are too strong. Similar units that can do hit and run siege (Steppe Riders and Oprichniks) at least don’t counter the cavalry units that are capable of catching them. And other heavy infantry can be easily intercepted when committing to far away sieges.

The speed boosts to Incan units could be limited to a speed boosting aura around Incan buildings or when nearby Chasqui rather than just huge speed upgrades by default.

Chincha Rafts

Chincha Rafts are never going to be balanced or fun to fight against when they have to fulfill the role of every single ship in the game. The Inca need at least one more boat type so that the Chincha Raft can be given a more defined function and not have to do gimmicky things like train itself.

They should have smaller Balsa Boats (like the ones used on lake Titicaca) to fill a canoe equivalent role. That type of boat is even pictured in one of the Chincha Raft upgrades!

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Priestesses

It is baffling why these are the only unit in the game that can convert things. The Inca were converted to Catholicism, not the other way around. If anything, Missionaries should be the unit that has a conversion ability.

Even disregarding the logic of it, the conversion mechanic really sucks and it doesn’t seem viable to use. You need to sacrifice Priestesses’ time on the plaza, and most high value conversion targets like cannons are going to be surrounded by enemy units and die as soon as they are converted.

They really should just have the crate and treasure gathering ability by default without the need of a card and they’d still be useful enough without a conversion gimmick.

Stealth Buildings

This is just silly.

Plantation Trickle

Having a trickle and limited number of plantations makes no sense. If an agriculture bonus is needed, a unique building like a terrace farm or gold trickle of gather boosting aura from the above Qulla would make way more sense.

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Well put,
Kanchas spawning llamas is an excellent suggestion.
Bravo.

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If they went with Qullqas as an alternate resource generating building instead they could even simplify things further and do away with Kanchas entirely to just have regular houses. 20 free llamas from houses probably wouldn’t be too much especially if you took away the starting llama.

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Basically not such a bad idea, or not such a hard problem in my opinion.
I would first try to reduce their initial food trickle, maybe 0.15 / 0.3 / 0.45 / 0.6 in the Exploration / Commerce / Fortress / Industrial Age. Then costs 150 wood, provide 20 pop and build limit to 10.

If it become an equivalent to Bank, it have to cost for a high price, and that would make their offensive late like the Dutch, while the native Americans should have a powerful early game.

If it become an equivalent to Factory and able to trickle other resources, it would be unavailable until the Industrial age. The economy structure has to get redesigned since the current situation is based on the design that there are Kancha food trickles in the early game. So that I do not support this solution.

They said this feature is for making it close to AoE2. I don’t get it clearly, I just feel it complex even if I play AoE2 too.

The Priestess actually inspired me, push me design Kunoichi (くノ一) as the unit of the new semi-civ of Japan, Shinto Grand Shrine.

They are Agent-like and Ninja-like female military unit, may not get strong combat power but able to use the stealth mode and heal ability, and to convert enemy units, reflecting that they worked as information gatherers, seductresses, messengers, assassins and Aruki Miko (歩き巫女).

I think making Kunoichi have the convert ability may be more accurate and suitable than Priestess anyway. I guess the female priests of the Inca had not seduced enemies like the in-game Priestesses.

I don’t think a bank-like building would necessitate a full economic overhaul or need to be limited to industrial age.

A Qullqa could be a bit cheaper than a bank and only generate food at first, with a mix of resources being enabled by later upgrades (like the Chinese wonder). Add to that houses that spawn llamas and Inca should be in a strong position for food income. Giving them normal houses would allow them to get more llamas and spend less wood on housing.

That would be a much better fit for the role but stealth conversions would probably be pretty annoying. As far as I’m aware, Incan priestesses were temple virgins so of all the units that could have the ability, they by far make the least sense.

Ummmm… Since they are separated from the houses like your wish, no longer providing population, the Incas would have to pay additional resources to gain the food trickle they should own originally. The current Inca economy structure bases on the food trickle existing there, so becoming to lack the trickle and to cost more resources would make the Inca offensive delay.

On the other hand, they should not be similar to the Porcelain Tower. The Porcelain Tower is limit to up to only 1, unable to be rebuilt, its mix of resources contains less per type of resource, and its efficiency would keep low if it is built in the early game. If you wanna make them able be upgraded, they should have a lower initial food trickle and get better and better as Age gets advanced, instead of just making them generate other resources in as bad efficiency as the initial one. Anyway if generating other resources is expected, there can be a new card named Bursera Graveolens, which make Kancha House also start to generate wood by 0.35 per second and slowly heal nearby friendly units. This card is also listed at here.

I like the idea about llama, but I prefer to make your “normal houses” really normal than having other special ability again. The Kancha House can be set to able to choose the option between resource trickle and automatically generating llamas.

They would be similar to the Porcelain tower only in regards to producing a mix of resources (after an upgrade). Obviously they should be rebuildable and have a similar build limit to banks.

I don’t think Inca would be overly starved of food without Kanchas. And having to pay additional resources for the food trickle is kind of the point.

If you made the resource gathering building a reasonable cost and have them get lots of free llamas they’d do fine. Something like a cost of 200w 200f would be reasonable and allow you to reinvest the food they generate into more Qullqas. Shipments or age ups to send Qullqa builders could also speed things up.

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I just think the design for Inca was/is too gentle and too broad.

It feels like the perks from a few concepts in Alpha that were all put together into one single civilization:
Highly effective cards that contemplate everything,
they receive an insane amount of travois,
they have (some of ) the best politicians (free upgrades, shipments, builder travois)…+ perks on minor tribes, booming, defense, + army as complete as the euro civ

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Converting priestesses, military garrisoning, poison arrows, etc definitely feel like they were just thrown into the civ after the devs experimented with them and didn’t know where else to put them. All of these could be better implemented elsewhere. Conversions would make the most sense for Spanish and/or Portuguese Missionaries. Military being able to garrison in forts could be a unique perk for a Maori faction. Poison damage could be the ability of natives like Jivaro.

The insane amount of wagons and affinity for resource generating houses seems to be a common theme for the DE civs, not really just Inca specific and should really be toned down.

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So to develop on this further, if we say that the kancha is the strength of the inca due to allowing them to turtle, what should their glaring weakness be, if we still want to keep their ability to turtle.

if the eco is too much we could either nerf the eco or increase their unit cost overall to put more strain on their ability to contest the map wihile still turtling.

Like if their raiding is what is allowing them to keep turtling, then a nerf could be to just remove most of the chimmu runner shipment, besides the support ones and also increase their gold cost, its 35 right now and could be 40-45. This would also incentive them to fight for the map or else they cant make their only cav unit.

the spearman cost is 90 food and 25 wood, could be 90/30 or 100/30 to make their massing a lot more difficult, same to the bowman which is 80/25, could be 80/30 just to make it a lot harder to both gather wood for military and kanchas and walls.

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Inca military garrisoning should be either removed or made a specialability with a hefty cooldown.

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still, it’s very simple, from my point of view aoe3 is very dynamic because it contains fights which are dynamic and which require micro and skills (you see it when you do a blindly classic z move you generally lose your fights except with ashi :smiley: (joke)), to give another example there is the snare mechanics which forces you to concentrate more on the fight and on your army right

And the problem with Inca is that this civ completely ignores these 2 aspects of the game which are very important, the chimus which are not snairable (even if it is a competence now but it is still stupid ofc) and to be able to put the garrisoned military units allow you to escape any fight allows you to engage any fight too, take archer bolas or huaracas or whatever you want out of the fort, shoot, and you put them in the fort etc etc so the cav becomes completely useless

The design of the civ goes against the basics of aoe3, I don’t know why they made it but it’s obvious that it’s broken xD and I’m not even talking about the bolas and huaracas which are completely unkillable for real, these units are just way too strong jeez and in addition they have a turtle power which is just too high, they can clearly camp for 1 hour if he wishes since the kanchas trickle is too much lol and they have a square shape so you wall with + the pathings that it can create, a card which gives 45% hp to the building and give atk damage to the tc (obviously it’s ridiculous lol it’s pretty obvious too) and a second tc age 2 like the civ can take gold safely on the map if he plays age 2, so i mean the civ is very clearly invincible because of its design, all of these things i quote are for me so obvious that I do not understand why we have this (and again I do not speak of the priestess who can convert units lol and of course they have so much hp that it is impossible to snipe them when we are desperately trying to rush an Inca and we have ridiculous age up or card with a ton of priestess cuz why not)

and people complain about jap or dutch but this civ really has a turtle potential which is much higher and which goes against the game design, when you play inca a minimum well it is just IMPOSSIBLE to lose tbh, the civ is invincible and I don’t even exaggerate, that’s why the civ has banned from all the tournaments that I can see on the game which is pretty sad right

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We could just reduce the garison limit to like 5 or something, part of the gimmick is to reduce pop usage, so if the ability to move masses of units to different side is a problem, just make it less so.

tbh like bolas were just not a problem, even nearly useless even until the recent updates so its arguably overtuned but tuneable ( the biggest change was the move to allow them to be microed), some further tuning could be all it takes.

and yeah for eco either reduce the trickle or increase unit costs, I am more for increasing unit costs cause that more hampers their ability to turtle personally

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In my opinion the Inca turtle play is very week if you know what to do. You go Imperial age, make mortals and Incas are doomed. It is strong if you try to win Incas turtle strategy with units.

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You are playing a different type of game than most of the rest of us.

Just go to Imperial, huh?

Yes, it will not be a quick game, but from the other hand, the turtle strategy gives you the necessary time you need to do it. It will be a slow but easy win. If you try to rush without mortars and the opponent knows what to do you might have problems.

With inca I usually regret making the decision to go to third age. It almost always results in the death wave shortly after.

Actually I can’t recall a game I ever made it to industrial against inca. There must have been one out of hundreds of games but I can’t recall it.

Alas imperial is just a dream

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My bad, I was speaking about the Aztecs building turtle strategy, not the Incas. ( I read turtle game and my mind wend to Aztecs)

The Aztecs building strategy where you have the card for 100% more War Huts/Noble Huts and you have every card that buffs buildings and you manage to have 15+ Barracks with 300+ attack and 20k+ HP. (the azdecs have and a dance that buff buildings a lot, for that these stats)

Only in you-tube I have seen this Aztec turtle strategy. It is very rare. In this strategy, the opponent has the time to go to Imperial age if he wants.

I don’t think that Incas players stays in their base like Dutch players does. Native American civs plays aggressively. They have advantage at start but as the game goes on, if you manage to survive they have disadvantage because they does not have good artillery options. I think Incas is like Hausa. They have a quick start game.

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