They got cav tho to compensate that weakness tho
Also i think the rate might be hindering in their philosophy as it insentivises more towards the castle and keep their more decent choices like lc or knights on the side
Also i feel like in the current meta that obuch skirms seems like the best choice
That is the serjeants fault for being so cost ineffective, not the obuch being so good. I think obuchs themselves are fine. If anything other UU should be buffed to the same viability
They still have the inherent weaknesses of slow infantry. They’re slow and can’t force fights (unlike cavalry) and they don’t have the range /concentrated fire power of archers.
They are what infantry are supposed to be. Very good in a direct conflict. If anything all infantry should always be the more cost effective option in those types of fights
Obuchs SHOULD beat boyars, because boyars have the mobility.
Being slow not only means you can’t outflank, change targets, can’t retreat, can’t run back to your base when cavalry outflanks you, suffer from poor pathing even more, but it also means your reinforcement rate is much slower ie every new unit created takes longer before it pays back the investment.
We’re just so used to the current meta that we think units shouldn’t perform like obuchs
If anything the problem is poles eco (we know eco tops everything)
I would maybe tone down their stone to gold ratio.
Nothing more. Other civs with higher winrates need more nerfs, or better yet, weaker civs should be buffed to the same strength.
That is the problem with Goths. Their eco is lacking outside of infantry, meaning it’s more punishing to access the counters that they have. HC should eat obuchs. Onagers can eat pole skirms, while each civ can play dodge ball with BBC, huskarls can eat the skirms and avoid the slow obuchs. Or simply tank skirm shots while HC hit the obuchs.
But their eco sucks balls. So they fail before then
That’s why boyars are actually kind of OP currently.
The recent 8+3 MA makes it unbeatable vs most melee units but leitis. Extremely all arounded unit now
They still looses too obuch thats why that is that
At least they’re balanced out by their slower speed, high gold cost(sustainability), and bottle necked by castles in a civ that only really has a food bonus.
Halbs still eat em. But I do love boyars. Very happy with the last few buffs.
I wonder how they fair v Aztec pikes.
And thats the difference. Cavalry and archers have trash counters. Infantry do not have such counters.
Obuch even has higher HP than vikings champion and berserk. Relatively cheap for an infantry UU and Higher armor than most infantry UU. (berserk, jaguar, samurai) Being more versatile while being a UU of a cavalry civ. A cavalry civ have better infantry UU than infantry civ. It looks pretty unfair and I think they should lose 1PA. Thats it.
Which is fine, but when they still lose in direct head on fights, then it’s not as fine. Because they are paying very dearly with their inherent disadvantages. And arguably they’re harder countered by the archer line than any other unit is countered(cavalry can avoid spears and /or out manoeuvre to actually beat them, skirms don’t work if you have a meat shield in front of archers due to AI targeting). So infantry don’t have a trash counter but a much harder counter does exist.
Infantry don’t have a trash counter,but that doesn’t mean they can’t simply be avoided and their owners base nuked by trash cavalry.
Or in the case of any infantry facing obuchs, polish skirms(trash units) suddenly become a very good counter Vs gold infantry
And ultimately you can even use skirms Vs goth champs even more so v Tatar 2hs
Don’t hussars actually beat champs? Especially if we consider reinforcement rate? Or if the champs lack even singular upgrades? They aren’t a hard counter but that makes them a counter.
OR read my earlier post
And buff some of those UU instead.
The berserk is much faster,nevermind it’s other stats which puts it on equal levels as a standalone unit, simply the speed alone sets it apart
Samurai has needed a buff for a long time. Jaguars are incredibly efficient at their job. Just because the meta doesn’t favour their target doesn’t mean they themselves are lack lustre even.
I think militia line needs bonus damage against scouts period. Ive proposed adding eagle armor to all trash units before and somewhat still think its needed in some cases.
I atill think obuch is too good though. Literally the only answer to obuch + skirm is siege
I think the Obuch costing 45 gold and 85 food (or something like that) would balance the unit. The same as Teutonic Knights. That way, the spam can be lowered down, and you don’t have a pure champion replacement. That way, the Obuch remain awesome, but just more costly.
Poles get more gold due to Stonemines. And even lots of food due to how their farms work around their mills, a fair trade off.
Thats far too much imo
HP could be 60 (70 for elite)
How are the Goths able to stop them? They have litterly nothing.
What cost should they be then?
Hand cannons.
Id either increase food or gold a little bit.
Obuch isn’t OP.
Poles Eco is.
I’d just increase the food cost - maybe to like, 70.
why people wanna nerf perfect balanced civs not the best ones like mayans/franks? poles have no strong unit wihtout obuch
look the winrates poles are just good in arena