I’m going to start by talking about Age of Empires I. You see, in that installement, there were only two Siege weapons. They both did well against buildings, they were long range, and they were available in the third Age. Moreover, they came out of a Siege workshop, because that was the only building that produced siege.
Now. Age of Empires II. There are 6 siege weapons available, which is too much. It’s confusing. Four of them come up in the third Age. However, only two are effective against buildings, and they have to come up close to them, which is a risk. The other two are ranged, but are no good against buildings: not only do they do little damage to them, but they also have to get in range of Castles, Towers and Town Centers to attack them. To add insult to injury, these two are the same from in Age of Empires I, but they were dumbed down, deprived of their abilities.
You have to wait until the fourth Age to get weapons that are effective and also outrange enemy buildings. One of them comes out of the Castle, which is the most expensive building, that costs the most scarce resource. It’s quite posible to get deprived of this one. And the other one, the one that requires Chemistry, isn’t available to all civilizations.
Then, there is the last Siege weapon introduced, which, it appears, the community laughs at, because it doesn’t even deal damage.
So, what do you think? Is the Siege aspect so poorly designed in Age II? I think the world would be a better place if siege had been left alone and it was like in Age I.
Generic Mangonels outrange generic TC’s with full upgrades.
With upgrades, they are quite good at dealing with buildings, albeit the upgrades are expensive
The Siege units that are available in the castle age are deadly to units (as they probably should be) should they score a hit, so likewise the damage against buildings in the castle age has to be lower to ensure someone who goes siege and wins a fight with it doesn’t kill the opponent before they have a good chance to respond to it. Lose your army to siege that’s good against buildings and you might not survive the push.
Siege tower could use some love, but besides them, all (generic) siege has effective, consistent use in AOE2.
I love the way siege is at the moment. I don’t think it needs changed overall.
rams can take down buildings well, but are not impossible to defend against. They are effective in castle age and imp (siege ram). Only thing is that I think ordinary rams should perhaps be more effective against castles, as if you’re stuck in castle age castles seem almost unkillable (assuming enemy has invested in some military), or taking out the castle is just a too large investment to justify it.
Mangos are great and should not be changed. effective vs archers, infantry (sorta), and good vs production buildings and TCs. Keep them as they are.
Scorpions are great vs archers, CA and mass infantry. I think they should be given a little more damage vs buildings.
Trebs and BBC are great. It is tough though for non BBC civs to get castles destroyed. It does make it hard. But with siege ram (and even capped ram) it isn’t impossible.
Only change: maybe it should be easier to push in castle age with rams. Especially as an archer civ it is hard to do damage against a compact 3TC base. It means an archer civ must go up to imp. Cav players can still do damage in other ways, it just seems archer civs don’t have a choice but go fast imp. Just a thought.
I was a little confused yesterday when a player garrisoned villagers inside a siege tower. Not sure now if always been like this. Seems like now you can.
[quote=“WoeIsToWho, post:2, topic:121979, full:true”]
Generic Mangonels outrange generic TC’s with full upgrades.[/quote]
Whoa, I had missed that they changed the Fletching line and now it only gives attack to Town Centers but no range.
But apart from that, Mangonels only help you in a very situational manner. Against units, they do well if the units are stationary; if they are moving, it’s very likely that the mangonel will miss the shot. And to make it worse, the enemy is now aware of the presence of the mangonel.
Mangos are great vs archers, they definitely have many uses. They should not be touched. The only thing I would say about siege is the siege tower (as mentioned above) and the fact that it is hard to do structural damage as an archer civ in castle age (though mangos can still work well tbh), maybe rams should be stronger in castle age? Because if they were stronger you could still defend with mangos which is good, but would mean pushing a castle is more realistic.
the design isn’t too bad. but a lot of small things add up to make castle age too defensive in general
if someone makes a castle, it should be really strong, and that part is working
the problem is town centers are really strong too, and that feels wrong
offensive siege is an enormous investment, and in a normal RTS it should be how you punish the greedy expansion play. but that doesn’t happen in aoe2
all the TC arrows combined with monks being able to hop into TCs makes it tough to keep the defensive mangonels away from your own offensive rams/mangonels
only 3 civs have eagle warriors. the rest basically have to wait til imperial to do anything beyond some small raids
Siege feels clunky, but that’s just the game engine and I don’t think much can be done about it (just like pathfinding).
I wish Mangonels (and BBC/Trebs) had a single time attack ground option though. I’m not a fan of having to click several keys just to do the most basic micro (my problem isn’t that you have to micro, it’s the manner it’s done).