Issues with Unit Modes when in a Group

Each unit type has its own modes (e.g. Cannons have Limber Mode and Bombard Mode).
So when we select a certain unit we get a box where we can change the mode for that unit.

The problem arises when we select a group of units of different types (e.g. Cannons, Cavalry, and Infantry).

So here is a list of issues that need to be addressed when we select a group of units.

  1. The box that shows unit modes shows the modes of only one type of units, not all three.
    Often we have cannons in a group, but their unit mode (Limber vs Bombard) is not always shown
    which is a problem.
    The Unit Mode box has 3 columns therefore each column can be used for a different unit type.
    This way we can change unit mode for all units in a group without having to select them
  2. There are different type of cannons, so when we select a group of units that has different type of
    cannons, the unit mode shown in the box is only for one type of cannon (e.g. falconets).
    Therefore, we can change from Limber to Bombard only for this type of unit, while the other type of
    cannons in the group stay in limber mode.
    Basically, we need to select each unit type separately in order to change its unit mode.
    The solution is to apply the new unit mode to all cannons and not just to that type of cannon.
    The same rule should apply to cavalry and infantry.
  3. when we select a group of units, we get to see a box with all the different unit types that are in that
    When we double click on an icon (within that group box) that represents a specific unit type, we are
    shown the unit mode but the unit itself is not selected (the entire group is).
    This prevent us from easily selecting specific units within a group such as cavalry in order to give
    them special commands.
    This should change. Double clicking on a unit icon should bring us only to that unit or units and
    create a new group box where only that specific unit(s) is selected.
    You can also add “Back” icon that can bring us back to the entire group.

These are the unit grouping issues and the proposed solutions.
Other RTS games handle groupings more or less the way I proposed.

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Yesterday, January 19, a new patch was released.
Yet, this issue hasn’t been resolved yet.

Developers, please look into this issue.

This shouldn’t be hard to fix.

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Addressing this issue is especially important because of another issue where when a group of units that includes cannons is instructed to move to a destination, some of the cannons move in bombard mode instead of limber mode which they then move very slowly, slowing down the entire group.
Therefore, changing all the different type of cannons to limber mode takes too long.

That is a separate issue by itself.
When a group of units that includes cannons is instructed to move, all cannons should switch automatically to limber mode.


Is anyone looking into this issue?

  1. This would get messy, some units already use all available space (Daimyo).
  2. When you use hotkeys (see Unit Tactics hotkey section), this works as you propose.
  3. This is possible but you need to do CTRL+CLICK, not double click. Switching back is not possible though. It is also possible to remove a unit type from selection using SHIFT+CLICK.

So imagine that we have 4 different type of artillery in our group.
We would have to CTRL+CLICK the first artillery type in order to switch them to Bombard Mode, then select the group again, and then CTRL+CLICK again the next artillery type, therefore repeating that process 4 times, just to switch all our artillery to Bombard Mode.

This is a micro nightmare.
I prefer to replace that with one click.
Is that a bad thing?

i use tab to cycle through the unit groups while clicking the mode i want, works well enough

and using hotkeys solve like 80% of the issues most of the time with the unit formations

I want to ask in your example though, even with the proposed nested group and the back button, it would still be the same amount of clicks

big group → double click → command → back → double click

the current system you can just go

control group → ctrl click → command → control group → ctrl click → command

You need to use the hotkey for this. Select all of your artillery of whatever types and press the hotkey for Limber/Bombard mode, that’s all. They will all switch at once.

I wish it worked like that but it is NOT when you have more than one artillery type in your group.

Imagine if you had 4 artillery type units in your group.
You would then have to ctrl-click each artillery type and then change it to bombard mode, repeating this process 4 times.

Even with the tab circulation it would take too long.

My proposal is that all types of artillery units would be tied together so we would need to ctrl-click only once in order to change all artillery types to bombard mode.

Another way for resolving this issue is that all artillery units switch automatically to bombard mode when we select the entire group and click on the “Stop Immediately” button.
This will allow artillery units to engage in battle immediately after selecting that just like the rest of the unit types.

Currently, when we move an entire group forward and then click on the “Stop Immediately” button, artillery units stay idle in Limber Mode while the rest of units (infantry and cavalry) engage in battle automatically, forcing us to ctrl-click each artillery type separately in order to change it to Bombard Mode.
That is a micro nightmare.

I’m trying to say, the hotkeys do work like that when you have more than one artillery type in your group. The hotkeys are not the same as clicking the button on UI, because the hotkeys affect everything selected.

  1. Select all your Falconets, Culverins, whatever types of artillery together
  2. Press the hotkey to switch mode (on legacy hotkeys this is ALT+B for bombard and ALT+L for limber)
  3. Watch all of your different types of artillery switch modes together at the same time, just like you wanted

Very true, when selecting a group of units including different types of artillery ALT+B for Bombard and ALT-L for Limber will switch ALL the different artillery units.

So why doesn’t it work the same way when I click on the Limber or Bombard icons within the entire group?
Don’t you think it should switch all artillery types just like ALT+B and ALT-L does?

You are offering me a solution, which is very nice of you, but what I am doing here is reported an issue/bug.

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cause then what happens if you want to issue different commands to different units in a group?

I want the option to either change them individually or all at once and the current system allows for that flexibility cause i can either tab cycle, which takes like half a second once you practice or i can use a hotkey to change them all

Like there is a solution to your problem in the game, you can choose to use it if you want.

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If you want to issue different commands to different units in a group then you can CTRL-Click that unit and issue the command.

However, if the entire group is selected and you issue a commands, then that command should apply to all the units in that group.

That is what a hotkey does, like the thing you want already exists, its just on a different control, you want it on the mouse, I want it on the hotkeys

also I caution the idea of needing to have commands issued to all be the same, that can backfire on you pretty quick in this game if it was made universal and you require ctrl click to do so since a lot of unit with different functions share the same formations and also due to how formations works

for example, I have an army of mixed muskets and skirms and im about to get attacked by cav i want to turn the muskets into melee mode, if it applies to all then i would also turn skirms to melee mode and reduce their damage.

in the current system i just quickly tab to the unit i want and change their mode, which is a keyboard +plus mouse action, so much better then 2 different mouse actions or even a mouse action first and then a hotkey which is much slower.

not to mention since it doesnt leave the control group, i still maintain full control of the group which is pretty important since melee unit tends to break formation and then get snipped

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Hello everyone! I think these are quite reasonable concerns, so I’ve passed them on to the team. Thank you. :+1:

@gmenyhart, Great, thank you.

Exactly, right.
What I want already works for the hot keys CTR-B and CTRL-L, therefore it should be working the same way for the icons that represent Bombard and Limber.
This functionality should be consistent for both hot keys and icons.

But it is already working like that for the hot keys.

why should it be the same between the hotkeys and the icons?

it being different allows us to do different things instead of just being a single system that can get inflexible

yeah and so I dont have to use the hotkeys when its not needed, I can use the icon fuctionality when I want to

Because that is a programming standard.

The problem you are having with this approach is that you may end up changing the unit mode for the wrong unit type since you don’t know which unit type is represented by the unit Mode icons.

what standard? its two different interaction with 2 different functions, what programming standard is involved here?

u know you can look at the unit portrait to know which units you are clicking for right?

You are mixing things up.
We are talking about a selection of several unit types in the same group where you can select up to 95 units in one group.

Such group can have 5 different artillery types.
When you click on the Bombard icon, only one of the 5 type of artillery will switch to Bombard, and the other 4 types will remain in Limber.
On the other hand, if you use ALT-B, all 5 artillery unit types will change to Bombard.

Hot keys and Unit Mode Icons MUST work the same way for the sake of consistency.
This is a well known programming rule.
2 ways for doing the same thing, where both ways produce the same results.