I know it’s kinda weird but apparently they used non-military ships for transport, or so I learned thanks to the hoax being debunked. As far as I understand it, it’s unlike other states like Ancient Athens or Rome where the state funded vessels intended only for war, and many states in the Middle Ages used normal ships for combat. Like in Scandinavia the longships where the intended use was transporting as many people as fast as possible but it still was used in naval battles, while real warships like quinquiremes were heavy and could ram other ships or have siege weapons on board.
2 Likes
Yes, comparisons would have to be made between Rome and China:
-
Crisis of the 3rd Century/Three Kingdoms (220/235-280/284) (periods of divisions and civil wars)
-
Constantine Dynasty/Sima Jin Dynasty (280/284-395/420) (relative unification and pacification)
-
Division and Fall of Rome/Liu Song Dynasty (395/420-476/479) (barbarian invasions and again periods of divisions)
After this, both Rome and China divided into several kingdoms again until Justinian semi-reunited them in 565 in the case of Rome and the Siu Dynasty in 581 in the case of China. From then on, the Byzantines and the Chinese of AoE 2 entered the picture…
Yes, I’ve been studying History since March, and the Introduction to History teachers tell us that everything is debatable when it comes to fixed chronological dates, since at the end of the last century, with globalization and Francis Fukuyama’s “The End of History,” everything became global. We have to analyze everything globally and find a middle ground between Western and local historiography…
Yes, this is what the AoE wiki says:
Unit name
The name of the Thirisadai is likely based on an outdated Wikipedia article about the Chola navy. The article mentioned Thirisadai (literally: “three braids”) as the name of the Chola’s heaviest warship class.[1] However, that article has been debunked by a Reddit user because the references cited by that article did not mention the Thirisadai at all.[2] As a result, that Wikipedia article has been edited so the article (as of 1 May 2022) no longer mentions Thirisadai.[3] As of 18 October 2022, the page has gone through gradual rechecking and verification of the sources, many parts of the article have been identified as fraudulent and consequently deleted.[4]
In an interview, Sam Levin, Forgotten Empires’ Narrative and Level Design Lead, mentioned that the name Thirisadai came from “trying to be a little cute with historical details”; he stated that the ship is attested in a military manual: “We tried to be a little too precise instead of focusing on authenticity — we could have just called the unit battleship”.[5] It is possible that the alleged manual was the Yuktikalpataru, which was a Sanskrit statecraft manual, yet it did not mention the Thirisadai but mentioned several lower-class ships previously mentioned in the Chola navy page.[6] Nevertheless, the manuscript has been considered apocryphal.[7]
Yuktikalpataru has been used by early Indian historians such as Mukherjee as proof of the proficiency of Indian shipbuilding. He also claimed that the Indonesian Borobudur ship was an Indian ship and that the relief depicted Indian people sailing to colonize Java as a part of Indianization.[8] These claims have been debunked in later publications, and Dravidian ship types that have a strong historical position have been studied by Hermann Kulke, Subbarayalu, et al. in their work, Nagapattinam to Suvarnadwipa.[7][9][10] Furthermore, while other ships mentioned in the Yukti-Kalpataru have Sanskrit names, the Thirisadai stands out in the list by having a Tamil-language name.[6] The Yuktikalpataru was composed by the Paramaras, who reigned over Surat and Gujarat region, a well-known shipbuilding location in medieval and early modern India; it corresponds to the Gurjaras civilization rather than to the Dravidians.[11]
Did Age of Empires get taken in by a Wikipedia hoax?
Video about Chola navy by historian Anirudh Kanisetti
This debacle has been addressed by Indian historian Anirudh Kanisetti in his 2025 book, Lords of Earth and Sea: A History of the Chola Empire. His research confirmed that the ship is indeed a hoax, a “feel-good myth” made to bolster nationalist views. Kanisetti remarked that even the Chola navy itself could not be found in historical records and likely did not exist; the Cholas were a primarily land-based polity with more emphasis on infantry and elephantry in their army. The Chola army relied on boats that were hired from Tamil merchants to move their troops across the sea.[12][13]
Unit model
As there are no surviving representations of the Chola navy, the Thirisadai’s model is based on the Indonesian Borobudur ship. There is no historical justification to model the ship based on the Borobudur ship. Outriggers and the sail type (canted rectangular sails or tanja sails) are distinct features of Austronesian ships. The bipod and tripod mast are also an Austronesian characteristic. Surviving depictions of classical Indian ships exist - they use tall square sails with a single-piece (monopod) mast, and no outrigger. Although some Indian vessels did have outriggers, these were copied from visiting Austronesian vessels and only used on small boats.[14][15] The Malay have the 2D model of this ship in their user interface, and a Borodubur ship model is also used for as the icon for the Gajah Mada campaign.
Using an outrigger vessel for the model of a reportedly massive ship is not a good choice, since the giant bamboo used for the outriggers does not grow big enough to act as a stabilizer in a vessel larger than 10 m in length. Furthermore, the outrigger floats would not have sufficient volume to provide the necessary buoyancy.[14][16][17] The model of the Thirisadai has an axial rudder placed in a transom (flat) stern, while the real-life Borobudur ship has a sharp stern and double quarter rudders. A sharp stern is a characteristic of Austronesian vessels because their ship will need to drift backward during a zigzagging maneuver to go against the wind (known as “beating to windward”).[18]…
Yes, that’s a good point…
Ah, interesting… I thought it was something similar to the Vikings…
3 Likes
Well, let me add some similar things about another units - boyars of Slavs.
(The first thing - I know little about boyars of Balkan countries).
- Their correct name is дети боярские (boyar scions).
- As far as I know, there are no evidences of such units used barding of iron parts (except trophies or examples purchased from western countries). They used leather-based barding (borrowed from steppe nomads; debatable which amount of them was also trophy or purchased) or saddle-cloth (чепрак / shabraque).
- Axe, that boyar unit is armed, resemles bardiche, used only by infantry similar to halberdiers. Boyar scions used spears, sabers, rarely maces. (They were not western naginata cavalry!
)
Also, they used both melee combat arms and composite bows. (Such a pity there is no such mechanics for mounted shooter units to use both distant and melee weapon).
Finally, that silly cloak behind backs of elite boyars - what need to use/show it during battle?
Now the only thing left to conclude their “legendary year” is the AOE2 DLC, and we know it’s very likely to be Chronicles, which is very likely to be fine yet who knows if there will be another.
The only thing they’ve been “improving” is faking hypes. Like “campaign-focused”. Like FIVE NEW CIVS. Like unprecedented surprise bold super duper mega nova banga bunga whatever.
Do you see them using those shiny words for the AOM DLCs (and the cut AOE3 one), the only ones that atill barely maintained normal?
Either they fix the direction seriously, or they’re done with it.
2 Likes
I just noticed that they put for the Chronicles “teaser” (if you can call it that) that we should expect information “very soon”. Well, it’s been nearly a month, and AoE2 devs are at gamescom (although could just be going to visit).
Should we expect anything? I’m not familiar with how games shows do reveals and such.
4 Likes
I’m also expecting news in the upcoming days. Hopefully.
Well, the last time they mentioned something aboud the next DLC was on August 12 when they realesed the update 153015
" As mentioned in our recent blog, we’re working on another DLC which will release later this year. We’re really excited about this one, and we’re getting close to being able to share more with you. Keep an eye out for some news in about a month."
Yes, exactly… until now they have only been selling smoke to end up selling 3 oriental DLC, Chinese in Retold, TTK in AoE 2 and now DotE in AoE 4…
1 Like
Honestly I wonder if they brought in a China consultant for the AOM DLC and decided they wanted to make sure they got their money’s worth by milking as much content out of the guy (or gal) that they could lol.
I feel like they won’t but much into publicity for the new AOE2 DLC until after at least the AOM Japan DLC has come out, maybe even the AOE4 DLC, but hopefully they don’t wait that long.
2 Likes
Well the 3K are so riddled with inaccuracies that they probably didn’t listen to them.
Hell, the same unit is in AoM and AoE2 and it looks wildly different between the two games.
I found something in the last patch that says “in about a month”. So roughly 18 days from now.
1 Like
I’m still upset for the 3K fiasco. I haven’t played the game since it launched and I’m not planning to do so anytime soon. Even after the big update of unique castles and monks, it’s a shame…
The next DLC is supposedly some Chronicle stuff and I very much appreciated BfG but it’s absolutely not guaranteed that I will buy it. I’m not hyped at all.
But the damage done is so big that I’m sceptical towards the whole series now. I don’t give a damn about the Japanese DLC for AoM (it’s also free for me so whatever) and I’m kinda disappointed for the IV DLC.
Not a good AoE year this one, for me.
8 Likes
This is an atrocious year and honestly, it’s hard to imagine a course correction unless the leadership at Worlds Edge is replaced.
Just the highlights for this year so far: we have seen a game abandoned, a DLC cancelled, the studio lie about the contents of another DLC, extremely controversial mechanics added to AOE2, AOE Mobile pushed to PC, and only new variants made for AOE4.
6 Likes
There is only one person I can picture as the new head: me.
That may seem self-serving, but my leadership would give the fans not only what they want, but also what they deserve. New architecture sets, four-civ expansions, balanced, historically accurate civs, and the regions that the fans, as well as myself, want badly. I’d start with Oceania (my personal favorite), then move onto the fan-requested Americas, then the Balkans, then Africa, and from there, who knows? Each one of the aforementioned expansions would introduce at least one new architecture set, sometimes moving around existing civs. Yes, the Persians would finally get the Central Asian set.
2 Likes
You’d get my vote (if I got one)
1 Like
Sorry to say this but if you make a product to satisfies you that clearly shows you are not a good person to head anything.
2 Likes
at this point the first thing i want is a setting that lets me get rid of all the shit that was added to the game since DE: armor piercing, charge attacks, extra damage from kills, strange new skins for elite units. I just want to play the game i paid, not the atrocity it has become.
you must be kidding
no. make this an official mod. don’t change legacy civs. they’ve already taken chinese, japanese and vikings from me.
1 Like
Hey but the adjectives they use are grander and grander
You know what is the most frustrating?
Maybe some conscientious developers pushed these great changes, then WE management kicked in with more bs.
3 Likes
There’s no way that they’d be added otherwise, and wouldn’t you humor me just once if it meant getting everything you wanted? Oceania is the only region I want that is at odds with everyone else.
Why would I be kidding? Does no one else think Oceania civs would be a good addition??
they would be awful additions. there wasn’t a single empire in that region during the middle ages. in the most extreme case: new zealand wasn’t even settled by humans until about 1300 CE
3 Likes
That’s extreme ignorance. There were empires in that region during the game’s time frame. Examples include the Yapese Empire, the Tu’i Tonga Empire, the Tu’i Manua Empire, and the Tu’i Pulotu Empire. The Tu’i Tonga Empire especially subjugated other island groups that weren’t Polynesian, or at least had a sphere of influence around them. You should do more research, because your take was an extremely ignorant one.