Usually you start trade in imp, not sooner unless that you are really desperate for gold, so as Italians, it really convenient to delay a bit trade to save resources, considering that it pays itself after 10 trade carts only.
For portos give them squires for their already good arbs+halbs combo (less gold on an already cheap FU combo).
If that it’s not enough, give them the free xbow upgrade to help them survive in the mid game, and then I think they are fine.
I think they are decent. A small buff would be welcome, but italians are in a worse spot…
It makes sense yeah, but on many occasions the reality may not allow it.
At least, I barely saw people research it first deliberately then starting trading.
Honestly, that is what I observe.
Free archer armor upgrade and cheaper age upgrade by 20% can not satisfy the Italians?
Only if they get them 11
Still it would be a decent fix, not my favorite one but clearly fine. I prefer:
People seem to like more the idea of training archery range units also in barracks and stables
Only part of your post I disagree with. Portuguese are one of the very few generalist civs (maybe Malay are also a generalist civ?). Having learned to play them I’d actually like them to stay that way. It can be fun at times, not to know what military you’re making until you’re halfway into a game.
I’m not denying that, but the fact that one civ needs a bigger buff doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t forget the other…
It depends on how you set up your eco and trade, but usually you should research it while you are building the markets, or while you are training the first trades, considering that after 10 it’s paid back itself there still is a lot of margin to gain even without considering the raids and eventual replenishments.
There are a lot of proposals and ideas for Italians, but we shouldn’t forget that the TT for GC is the most important problem.
Even if they would get only that it would be fine by me, maybe not enough but a lot better than nothing, or than a useless buff…
It wouldn’t change their play stile, if you go for archers you would simply not have to research a tech, having an, advantage for a small window of time, you wouldn’t have to change anything, not your build order or your strategy.
If you go for knights, monks+siege, OG, all that would still be perfectly fine, maybe even better because you could surprise your enemy that is expecting archers.
And then let’s give them squires, in the past they don’t get it because OG+FU halbs was OP, but the OG aren’t the same as once, so I don’t see it game breaking anymore.
I actually made a Testrun with portuguese skipping almost all Techs, including all eco upgrades, just hoing for a few skirms in feudal and castle age to fight off enemy archers. Then Building 5 feitorias in imp with about 40 vills, going ONLY into hand cannons + onagers + bomb cannons.
I thought it should be a big powerspike, skipping almost all technologies you usually go for, your Eco basecally feitos + vills producing whatever you need for your comp. Abusing also the Gold discount as far as possible.
It was a decisive defeat. The enemy just went directly into hussars + camels (indians). After some good Fights and even some raiding i could accomplish, the enemy jusst overwhelmed me.
I think there’s a short period were you have indeed a better comp and powerspike than your opponent, but he can catch up so fast with less pop that you shouldn’t go for this. Maybe if your opponent is meso, but even than it might be very difficult to pull it off.
Maybe i should have gone for another comp, but it seemed for me the strongest i could pull off to abuse everything portuguese get.
So my opinion on this it: Feitos suck, because they are either OP or Bad. They are OP in the very lategame when there are no ressources left, but they suck to give you any eco boost because they take too much pop space. They need to be fixed or removed.
Proposal 1:
Area of influence: A feitoria influences an area, all ressoureces delivered to a gathering site in that area are multiplied by p.e. 1.3. This could also influence allies.
Proposal 2:
Castle Age Feito: reducing the production rates and make feitos accessible in castle age. This can then be used as an alternative booming with also some defensive elements. It can be way better balanced because it can be immediately compared with additional towncenters and because of the lower production rates it wouldn’t be as much OP in very lategame.
So with Feitos you could get a powerspike in mid to late castle age, which you have to use, otherwise your opponent will outboom you. But you still have the option to just ignore feitos. So the advantage is more the play with the 2 tricks you can pull off. Your opponent doesn’t know which strategy you go until he scouted it. Until that he might just fear the castle all in and prepare for it. You may surprise him with standard booming.
Too complicated. AOE2 has not influence areas
I would make all resources can be dropped at feitorias instead (just as a TC). This helps to save some wood, so feitoria repays itself faster.
Also, dropping resources at feitoria makes sense.
pretty obvious u are done when i see u built 5 feitorias, which essentially means u only got around 150pop space in reality. Feitoria should be built at most 3 IMO, so that u still got like 170pop to use. U can build more if you are building new base after villager escape, but should always check if u have enough pop space afterwards.
ya, in contrast Organ gun did quite well vs paladin (with meat shield in front) because overkill isn’t as common vs High hp units.
To fix this…
What if the OG bullets went across multiole units (like scorpion)? (Some damage tuning is required)
Increasing the damage of auxiliary bolts (up to 3) is enough. No need to make it like a scorpion.
In that case, would you reduce the main bolt damage?
It wouldn’t be worth, because for wood it is a lot more convenient to just keep re-building lumber camps to shorten the distances to the wood line, and for farms it better a having a TC because you can garrison the vills and attack, or mills, because mills are cheaper and faster to build.
It’s not necessary, considering that the secondary bullets usually have less damage than most unit PA, they would deal just 1 damage most of the times, unless they have some bonus vs some kind of unit.
Actually the organ gun extra bullets ignore armor and deal 2 damage… But if they miss the inteded target, like always the damage is halfed to 1.
There are 4 extra bullets.
I would suggest
change the main bullet from 16 (20 elite) to 12 for both elite and non elite, so - 4 for non elite and another - 4 for elite.
Then increase the secondary bullet damage from 2 to 3 for non elite and another to 4 for elite.
The total damage percshot stayed the same. It was just shifted around, and since armor is ignored by extra bullets there is no effect here as well.
This would be a buff against rams only since they got more than 12 pierce armor.
Really? That’s new to me, where did you find it.
I read it somewhere in the steam HD forums some years ago… I hope its still true
It was when patch 5.7 dropped and the damage was increased from 2 to 1.
I don’t know if it’s still the case…
just retested. stray extra bullets deal 1 damage. if they hit the target they deal 2 damage regardless of armor. I tested this on rams.
The maximun damage per volley on rams was 9. (4x2 from extra bullets, 1 from main bullet after armor).
Against fortified walls with masonry and achitecture (12+1+1 pierce armor) the maximum damage per volley is 14 (20-14 from main bullet and 8 from extra bullets)
It is super rare that all bullets hit even from the cloest distance organ gun can shot.
Might work if the extra bullets dealt full damage to all targets, regardless of their intended target. AOE actually has fractional hp, even if it isn’t displayed.
Personally I would prefer a cost increase rather than main damage decrease.