Italians buff i would want to see

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Some changes i would love to see for Italians:

  1. dock, university, and archery range technologies cost 33% less, expanding the existing bonus to add a direct Archer bonus like all other archery civs outsider the unique tech

  2. élite genoese crossbows upgrade grants +1 MA (currently gives very little for a high cost)

  3. condottiero +3 bonus vs eagles, currently one of the few of not the only infantry unit without bonus vs eagles

What would you guys think?

Also anyone noticed any changes to Italians in the upcoming patch? To my knowledge, they are a fairly bad civ on land that could use some help

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That idea is a highly requested one from me, at least

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Why not just make their age up bonus better? Make it 20% for example

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So you want to turn them further more into a generic Archer civ? That’s it?

Exactly. We need this kind of changes, make Italians more Italians.

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No Id choose to lower the cost of the Elite Genoese upgrade and buff the Condottieros further

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I agree with that one, but you’re just making them strong where they’re already nicely defined and power-spiked.
That’s not how you design a civ, you need to focus on the playability along all phases of the game.

Wouldn’t mind obviously extra damage vs. Eagles since meso civs are already too strong.

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italy already too strong in normad

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111 XD
Imagine saying that when Spanish, Persians and Malians already rule them.

I think Elite Genoese Xbow should get +2 attack, so the elite upgrade is justified.

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I believe Elite Genoese is one of the worse Elite upgrades in the game, right? For the price you pay I’d expect more, adding +1 MA might be a start. Or maybe more attack.

If you buff Age up discount too much, it’ll just be too close to Byzantine’s imp discount

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They are not good in land maps coz they are slow in early games, similar to Spanish. There should be a relevant buff for their early games if you want to improve their games in land maps.

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I’d nudge their Age Up discount to 20%. It’d give Italians strength in flexible openings by their savings giving them a choice of one almost-free upgrade.

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i would want to make them an archer civ to begin with, since they have no bonuses. also they already have the UT to make them “unique” in the armor department at least even if it’s not that big of a deal, but cheaper ballistics and cheaper techs would make them stand out from others archery civs since no others have something like that

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my idea was that they already have 1 MA so make them 2 would further emphasize the fact that you need onager and skirms to counter that since italians do not get SE, to make them hardier against infantry and cavalry, that should already avoid them, so emphasizing their “thing”.

another option could be turning them into melee rattan, with 2 MA base and 4 for the elitè.

but yeah, the elitè geno upgrade is probably one of if not the worst

well saving a bunch of resources from age up and castle age tech with the proposal i made could help in spending a bit of resources in feudal to defend yourself without being punished?

another options i though could be “archery range unit and genoese get +1 MA from feudal”, then it could scale up to with ages or stay +1 according to balance, but that would make their archer and skirms tank 1 more hit from scouts for example

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that would not solve the fact that they are a totally generic archer civs until late castle age when you then need a castle, a university, and resources to actually feel something unique for their archer play. japanese with wood savings from eco bonus are a better archer civs unitl late castle tbf for example

also geno upgrade and condos would still suck hard…

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I do hope there will be

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Besides MA, projectile speed is the one remain untouched by other archer civ bonus. MA seems more simple to take effect.

Besides, imperial UT can be moved to civ bonus/team bonus. Buff both UU thru this UT.

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I don’t think that it’ll come, but I don’t think that it would break the balance either. Range techs aren’t expensive, and Italians lack HCA and partian tactics, so really this is more for TR.

Just decrease the cost, it’s easier and more effective.

Yeah, not bad, but even a +1 or +2 it may be enough. Alongside the kamayuks is the only infantry in the game without it.

I would personally add that italians get SE, affected by the uni discount. Onestly if fits both historically speaking and for balance purposes.

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There probably won’t be any. Italians despite everything don’t have big useless part of it like a “paper money” or a “elephant archer”, so it won’t get the same attention in the next patch, but it might come a little bit later.

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Yes it is the worst, and thats why needs to be cheaper. I wouldn’t buff the unit itself, it is incredibly strong as a foot archer, strong vs both Cavalry and Infantry

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I know this is wild, but why not increase GC PA to 1. So their pavise tech actually means something.

Plumes are faster, longer range, tankier in hp and PA, on a civ with a better eco, and has eagles(nevermind the best eagles which are better than Italian cavaliers) and have a cheaper elite tech

Possibly give GC -1 archer armour class so they take increased damage from skirms

EPlume 65hp, 2native PA, 1.2 speed

EGC 50hp, only 1 PA with UT, .96

One of these guys carries a giant pavise and wears armour, the other is naked :joy::rofl:

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