Definitely, let us see. Personally I doubt that condos can become faster that woads… a speed nerf is much more reasonable. It that case it would be a nerf for the Italians, but imo it doesn’t matter. The civ is already bottom tier…
As in, they have a technology for that?
I think faster moving Archer line is a great idea. 10%, same as for Lithuanians Skirms.
They do, but it comes in late castle age. An idea is to give extra PA as civ bonus, to make them playable in feudal/castle. In feudal for instance, Italians have just +75f, without any military bonus. No civ is so bad…
Tbh, this makes sense, but I do not like it too much. A bit overlapping with Koreans/Vietnamese. Maybe an eco bonus would follow much more the civ design.
Ofc paired with a nerf of the italian dock discount (and of the warships discount of Vikings).
Yes, this can work. It is a good bonus for archers. Even if it fits more the almost OP Mayans!
I think Italians is in need of a decent land eco bonus rather than military bonus. My proposal will be reduce the dock discount to 30%/40% in castle/imperial but extend it to something other like TC/all eco upgrades/Blacksmith or maybe even Range.
The only reason they don’t have halbs is devs wanted us to play GC. But they gave a terribly long TT time for them which is why we feel like Italians need halbs. TT of GC should be lower to other unique archers and we won’t miss halbs anymore (hopefully).
TT buff is close to bug fixing…
I am very favorable to nerf the dock discount to improve the land eco. Even a new specific eco bonus may be introduced if the ones you mention overlap with other civs
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You can’t avoid overlapping with Chinese - all techs are x% cheaper in x age. The only way to avoid is giving higher % of discount in some particular techs which basically their docks techs are.
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Yeah, but there are also other way to provide eco bonuses. To mention some:
- military buildings-50w
- getting a gold trickle equal to 1 relic from feudal
- all units cost -10%f
None of this is OP if the dock discount is hit to, say, 30%.
I think we all agree that they should nerf the dock discount and give something else that is usefull on both land and water map. A lazy way to do so is simply decrease the water bonus to -35% on tech and buff the aging up bonus to -25%. It won’t change a lot on water till imperial age.
and of course a buff on GC but let’s start with their creation time…
and what if pavise gives +1/+1 on all foot units? (even if by this name, it should only buff GC in an historical point of view) It would also buff their hand canon, pikes and champions.
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More resources at the start of feudal and castle age would help for sure, as it would some free tech (for example xbow) both military and economically, because it would be more resources freed up, but over all it would be a bit boring, since the would became a bit of a copy-paste of civs like Chinese or magyars (to name just 2…).
The ideas of +1 PA and foot archers was to change the game a bit and making it a bit more unique. I know that it may seems overlap with other civ bonuses (like viets…) but +PA was thought in order to make them specifically more resistant to skirms. Since that is the main and first response to an archer rush, giving them +1PA would allow Italians to more safely go straight for archers (without using scouts or MaA first).
Some other similar ideas were also in this direction (free archer armors upgreades, 40% faster training time for xbows…), however onestly I don’t think that we will see such bonuses for Italians anytime soom.
It would be better but the problem is that they need help much sooner.
Despite boring, this would be pretty effective. In general, if the dock discount is hit, then Italians may get some eco…
Except villagers or including them? And scout line as well? We already have 2 civs with discounted scout. Don’t need another one.
And while we’re at that maybe lets make their shortbowmen… I mean Genoese Crossbowmen classify as REAL Crossbowmen first.
The bonus was originally proposed for bulgarians, including scouts and excluding villagers. But it can be discussed ofc
Would you look at that? GC TT was reduced… don’t think it’s enough though
GC fix was expected and necessary. Imo Italians are still the worst civ in the game for 1v1 Arabia. The needed something earlier
Don’t worry bois i heard from a good source that if italians pick rate is still low, they will get hussars with 8 PA and cavaliers with 7 PA.
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Late game buff? I would prefer an early game buff instead.
Enough with +1 PA for LC/Hussar. Already 3 civs have that.
Tatars, Indians, Turks and the non-overlapping policy… at this point Italians may be buffed with a bit of overlap to other civs for archer bonus?