Changdao seems to be the only two handed melee unit in AoE3 that can’t AOE, which doesn’t match its cool big weapons, nor can it highlight its own characteristics with the Chinese spearman.
Of course, it is also reasonable in terms of its cost, but after all, there is no universal unit like Musketeer in China, so it is suggested to add AOE to Changdao, but not directly, but add a card for Changdao to obtain AOE in era 4.
This card can be designed in this way: it can only be used in era 4, which requires a certain cost (or not). At the same time, Send several changeda, so that changedao can have AOE. The counter effect is that this card will increase the cost of Changdao, so as to provide players with different tactical choices and emphases.Do you think it is reasonable?
The positioning of this card will be similar to Germany’s “Solingen stainless steel”. It is an entertainment card in the later stage of the game, with a certain balance between release cost and negative buff.
I have even designed the name of the card, which is called “Qi Jiguang”. He is the creator of Changdao, a weapon and unit. He is also the most famous military expert in the context of AoE3 era. Almost every Chinese and even many East Asians have heard that he has made many achievements in military reform, and his works have affected the military of the Ming and Qing Dynasties (it is the era of AoE3), Therefore, it is also called “Oriental Morris”. His army can be said to be the earliest “modern professional army” in Asia.
5 Likes
Changdaos are pike/halb hybrid with 5 speed.
giving them aoe would be the same as giving aztec trainable skull knights with 5 speed. It will be a shitshow
4 Likes
the real issue with changdao is their tiny multipliers and pitiful health. they are very underwhelming for what is intended to be your lategame cav counter. They do the same damage to cav in fortress age (shadowteched) as an age 2 pikeman. pitiful.
I think aoe changdao could be interesting but it would require an overhaul of the unit cost, shipments and banner armies.
6 Likes
I think a more interesting direction could be to increase their armour to 0.3.
Their high base attack means that they are more flexible and more generalist then pikeman or rods and I think atleast to compensate for their lower multi they should atleast last longer.
The higher armour would mean they last longer against cav and allow them to play a similar role to rods in disrupting formations
1 Like
i consider changdao a sort of discount rajput more than a European style unit. they have good damage but awful hp. I personally think territorial army combat → 20% to changdao (from 15%) and manchu combat → 20% to changdao (from 15%) would be a step forward. I also think a tweak to the cav multipliers associated with either an imperial upgrade, a new card, or something like that would be good. if it was a new card it would have to be age 4,as the age3 china deathball is already quite potent. I’d see 25% hp and +0.7x vs cav (for 3x total) with a consistent shock inf multi to accompany as a viable card. +.1 armour wouldn’t be out of the question either
4 Likes
Given their spamability and cost I don’t think giving them a swipe attack by default would be good for the long term balance of the game.
However, they could gain one on CD, with a small aoe, either via some card or imperial age tech.
3 Likes
Why not just buff Keshik for late game vs cavalry? …or give them the opportunity to obtain dragons through the consulate?
I think that with this they will face the cavalry very well.
1 Like
keshiks are actually quite good in the lategame, the issue is that they are an archer ranged cavalry, but lack melee resistance so they still fall quite quickly to cav charges. the same is true of changdao, both are quite decent but they die so quickly to… well pretty much everything. china entirely lacks a decent (melee) meatshield unit that is viable in lategame once wood is scarce
3 Likes
agreed china is always very glass cannon-y in the late game, you have massive DPS that can punch a hole though defenses or clear enemy units as they approach but you will die in melee.
If we do upgrade the changdao besides changing base stats , I do think an imp upgrade or changes to manchu combat will be best.
reason being for china there is kinda 2 mode, the age 3 unit mode with the skirms, changdao and cav and age 2 mode, with CKN, Keshiks and steppe.
China decks are often balancing between these 2 modes and buffing changdaos means that for lategame decks you will get skirms as a somewhat leftover unit since you almost always want to make CKN
Give honored and later shadow teched imperial Manchu available only at monastery with Manchu Combat ftw + extending the mongolian scourge bonus to them like with keshiks
Manchus already have the stats of Imp level cav archers for the same pop space
just letting them be trained is already enough
Cd-aoe and increasing costs are good ways to balance.
problem with buffing them lategame is that china has always been considered OP in treaty, or at least very good. regularly being in the top 5, with the 1 downside generally being anti cav and artillery being less than ideal.
1 Like
The positioning of this card will be similar to Germany’s “Solingen stainless steel”. It is an entertainment card in the later stage of the game, with a certain balance between release cost and negative buff.
It would take some major balance overhauls not to the unit, but to the civ itself but I always though the unit needed AOE damage. The civ needs to be weak to heavy cav or it really has no weakness, But I support changes to get a more balanced counter system for them, but the key is to not lose the essence and specialty of the civ,
Late game I personally never use the changdao combo because once age 4 chuknuknu pike card comes in they are just so much better.
So does china then need another card like that? What would be the counter balance, do skirms and archers, get minus 1 or half a multiplier vs heavy infantry?
Maybe that chuknuknu card should not effect pikemen, leaving that army to be a very strong anti inf, but a weaker anti cav, but then use the skirm chandao as a weaker skirm unit, but stronger on the anti cav.
I think Changdao should be more of a tank unit rather then a dps unit
China’s banner army always has a frontline shield and a backline attacker and changdaos due to their relatively lower hp (they only have 15 more base HP then the qiang pike) and the pike having the dynasty card means that it can’t take a hit in the later game.
I think some of the floated sugguesting, more HP and or more melee armout is the way to go.
1 Like
Changdao will make up for the vacancy of China’s powerful melee units (at least attack strength), and China has always lacked a reliable tank and always left a pile of zhugenu…
I think their atk is not bad at all and its about fine as it is.
They have higher base atk then rodolero and about the same amount of upgrades
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changdao get extra +38% stat from cards and +7% additional HP from british consulate
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Rods get +30% from cards, +10% stat from royal guard and +10%hp from arsenal.
They just need a bit more hp or armour
3 Likes
After playing a bunch of china since the update I agree changdao could use a buff, they do less dmg to cav than pikes and musks, and have less hp than musk. What is the point in changdao? If china could train musks or had a keshik arque army changdao would never be seen again. Keshik is already incredible anti-cav dps lategame, it makes sense for changdao to function as meatshield, but changdao is so bad age 4+ you’d rather have steppe riders tanking.
2 Likes
But they dont, just skirmishers
