I think that the melee vs cav damage is.great idea BUT I would do this:
Increase their HP a bit, not a must the same as HC but a bit.
Increase their base attack to something a bit lower than HC (eg, 32-38 may fit) and keep their attack speed.
Range attack should be fine as 3.5 with the feature I will comment, but maybe give them 4 will be better.
Add some range bonus vs cav to counter cavalry, as it’s designed.
Give them anti charge, same as spears. For example, a bayonetta in the gun that can be used in same situation as spearmen do.
Let archers do more damage versus them, same as spearmen.
What do you have with this unit?
A versatile version of HC that is a combo of spearmen and HC, but with less base attack than HC (so will deal worse than HC vs no cav).
Real ability to protect siege from cav charges. Right now knights in a charge will kill some jans and siege, spearmen right now are way better protecting, and cheaper.
An unit that has his cons and pros; good vs cavalry, but worse than regular HC versus other things, countered by archers (cheap unit).
Logic. You are replacing a multiporpose, expensive unit (HC), with a less multiporpose (but still useful) and more focused on a thing (countering cavalry) unit.
This way the HC being replaced with Jans are not a big issue, has his cons and pros, but it doesn’t feel like Ottos have not an HC and it is a problem. Now they would have not an HC but is not a problem at all.
Given the developers philosophy of wanting a plurality of unit types to be present in your optimal army composition i really dont think they’re gonna displace units like spearman; which currently Jans doNOT displace…
But i have fallen in love with the idea of the 50% archer penalty being removed and instead making the new unit type “light gunpowder infantry” directly countered by archers and mangonels. Keep all the other stats as is. This would automatically improve jans vs crossbows castles cav archers etc.
This would make archers and mangos the only hard counters and other non cav range units would become soft counter due to cost and range advantages.
I personally like the idea that their HP is low bc its NOT a frontline unit in this game so it doesnt need uber HP. Also this will allow MAA archer comps to push ottoman out of the Janissary heavy composition.
Again i remember Eric the dev lead saying how he like the ability for enemy to respond to a composition and switch out and not have games be so heavily decided on one bout.
For the records; the game has no melee damage mechanic for ranged units like AoE3 has right now. This is a design decision. They’re not gonna change it for single unit.
So, what’s the point of spearman if jans completely eclipse it.
And also jans can keep away from archers by staying in siege line and shooting middle to support melee inf. But enemy mangonels can reach them because they have nearly twice range of archers. I think taking extra damage from mangonels is worse.
It’s different, only the elephant has melee damage, archers on the back of the elephant continues shooting during that.
This mechanic cant be added alone. It can be nerf because melee damage will be lower and when close combat starts jans loses their high damage advantage so they always gonna try to kite to prevent that. If they can kite easily what’s the point. That’s why AoE3 has snaring effect so u cant get away when melee enemy catches you. It comes with lots of problems and needs additional mechanics to solve them.
Yeah, you pulled up most useless scenerio of implementing that. Jans would still stay away from melee because they have the life of a butterfly.
I was thinking of implementing it by making melee attack countering different units than the ranged attack or like melee of the AOE3 janissary that melee is actually better than ranged alternative.
PS: This is the general hybrid unit template I would like to see, it’s not a suggestion for janissaries.
So should jans try to get close to cavs for additional damage, can they use that against mangonels or high ranged armor units. There will be an switch to melee button like AoE3. It’s easy to say lets gave them melee damage without any details.
No. Imagine an archer that deals bonus agains heavy units on melee. Thats the kind of hybrid unit I would like to see. Whether or not they cost effiecently deal with maa or knights on melee is subject to balance.
Ok, so if archer get close to a unit, it’s starting use his melee attack. For example elite archer has 5 melee damage (8 for ranged), and +10 against heavy. Right?
They’re not reintroducing melee dmg with range units…technically streltsy still does it but extremely underwhelming as you can’t control it and it’s only 2 uses are against siege, which strel can focus fire and tower elephants which strel already trade well versus.
Also a tanky unit with range attack is a broken unit… aka grenadiers of old, horse archers of old, camel archers, tower elephants of past and present.
Again the devs want to promote unit diversity in your army, OP units no beuno.
Janissary need to fit a set of roles with proper counter(s). Currently it’s design as extremely weak ro high dps range attack but counters cav behind meatshield and supports siege.